buildzoid

New discord link

old one got leaked again.

I don't want to use the Patreon integration because that will kick people if they un-sub

So here's a new link: https://discord.gg/rGadRvFw9j

2x16GB DDR5-8000CL30 G.skill 6000C26 on MSI X870 Tomahawk with 9800X3D

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/Car8JXykSEs
MSI X870 Tomahawk
Tested on BIOS 1A20
memory kit used: G.skill TridentZ5 Neo RGB 2x16GB 6000CL26 1.4V
F5-6000J2636G16GX2-TZ5NR
Hynix 16Gb A-die single rank

tests passed:
Prime 95 Large FFT: 23+ hours
Karhu: 27+ hours
Ycruncher VT3: 6+ hours

MCLK: 4000
UCLK: 2000
FCLK: 2000 synced

VSOC: 1.05V
VDDIO: 1.45V
VDDP: 1.05V
MVDD: 1.76V ...

Early tRAS re-testing results

I've kinda mentioned that I want/need to retest tRAS on AM5 in a few videos livestreams. Well I've finally started on that. Here's the results I've gathered so from dual rank testing:

LOOK AT THE ATTACHED PNG

I also have data for SR but it's a mess and unfortunately I'm currently in the CZ for family reasons so it will take a while before I have the SR data in a format worthy of public viewing. Anyway the tRAS on AM5 doesn't affect performance "AT ALL"(I suspect the slow results ...

G.skill 2x16 DDR5-8000 CL34 // 9800X3D // ASUS Crosshair X870E Hero

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/Ib4ZZOHbz7g?si=hldLvuwQcfXz_Vou
Tested on BIOS 0706
memory kit used: G.skill TridentZ5 Neo RGB 2x16GB 8000CL38
F5-8000J3848H16GX2-TZ5NR
Hynix 16Gb A-die single rank

tests passed:
Prime 95 Large FFT: 10+ hours
Karhu: 13+ hours
Ycruncher VT3: 2+ hours

MCLK: 4000
UCLK: 2000
FCLK: 2000 synced

VSOC: 1.1V
VDDIO: 1.45V
VDDP: 1.05V
MVDD...

Ryzen AM5 Hynix 16Gb M-die DDR5 timings 2x16GB/2x32GB DDR5-6000 to DDR5-6400 V0.1

An expanded version of the original "easy Hynix timings". 16Gb M-die generally doesn't clock past 7000ish so all the settings here are for 1:1 mode since 2:1 mode at less tha 7600 doesn't perform well.

Ryzen AM5 Hynix 24Gb M-die DDR5 timings 2x24GB/2x48GB DDR5-6000 to DDR5-8000 V0.2

This is a more comprehensive version of the easy Hynix DDR5 timings but specifically for 24Gb M-die. Also include dual rank timings which the original easy Hynix timings didn't.

V0.3 improves tRAS and tRC settings.

Ryzen AM5 Hynix 16Gb A-die DDR5 timings 2x16GB/2x32GB DDR5-6000 to DDR5-8000 V0.4

This is a more comprehensive version of the easy Hynix DDR5 timings but specifically for 16Gb A-die. Also include dual rank timings which the original easy Hynix timings didn't.

EDIT: V0.2 added some even looser timing to try if you can't get certain speeds to work with your XMP/EXPO defaults.

EDIT: V0.4 loosens tRP a bit to improve compatibility with dual rank kits(2x32GB).

EDIT: V0.5 integrates my findings from my recent tRAS/tRC/rRP/tRTP testing

My personal AM5 DDR5-8000 success list

This list isn't meant to be an absolute "quality" ranking as the timings aren't being accounted for and some combinations may have had more effort put into them than others.

Also I am almost certainly not going to test every possible combination. I don't really have the time or resources to do that.

MSI X870 Tomahawk
2x16 G.skill 8000 C38 EXPO = EASY PASS
2x16 G.skill 7800 C36 XMP = UNTESTED
2x16 G.skill 6000 C28 EXPO = UNTESTED
2x16 Kingston 7200 C38 XMP = EASY PASS 2024-11-29 02:02:19 +0000 UTC View Post

2x16GB DDR5-8000 CL38 // Ryzen 7 9700X // MSI X870 Tomahawk

Tested on BIOS 1.A1A
memory kit used: G.skill TridentZ Neo 8000 CL38 1.45V EXPO
F5-8000J3848H16GX2-TZ5NR
Hynix 16Gb A-die

tests passed:
Prime 95 Large FFT: 10+ hours
Karhu: 16+ hours
Ycruncher VT3: 3+ hours

MCLK: 4000
UCLK: 2000
FCLK: 2000 synced

VSOC: 1.05V
VDDIO: 1.45V
VDDP: 1.05V
MVDD: 1.45V (fan somewhat optional)
MVDDQ: 1.45V

tCL: 34
tRCDWR: 16
tRCD: 46
tRP: 38
tRAS: 48

tRC: 86
tWR: 48
tREFI: 65535 (max S...

Ryzen 9800X3D RAM buying guide.

DO:
2x16GB DDR5-6000 CL30
2x24GB DDR5-6000 CL30
2x32GB DDR5-6000 CL30
2x48GB DDR5-6000 CL30

DO NOT:
4x16GB (unless you want your RAM to be slow)
4x24GB (unless you want your RAM to be slow)
4x32GB (unless you want your RAM to be EXTRA slow)
4x48GB (unless you want your RAM to be EXTRA slow)

REASONING:
- 6000 CL30 is a Hynix 16Gb A-die and Hynix 24Gb M-die bin.
- Hynix 16Gb A-die and 24Gb M-die are cu...

DDR5-8000 CL34 // Ryzen 7 9700X // ASUS Crosshair X870E Hero

Tested on BIOS 0505
memory kit used: V-color Manta Xprism 2x24GB 8000CL38 TMXPL2480838SWK
Hynix 24Gb M-die

tests passed:
Prime 95 Large FFT: 16+ hours
Karhu: 36+ hours
Ycruncher VT3: 2+ hours

MCLK: 4000
UCLK: 2000
FCLK: 2000 synced

VSOC: 1.1V
VDDIO: 1.45V
VDDP: 1.05V
MVDD: 1.62V (FAN RECOMMENDED)
MVDDQ: 1.42V

tCL: 34
tRCD: 48
tRP: 44
tRAS: 52

tRC: 96
tWR: 48
tREFI: 65535 (max SPD HUB temp in testing: 48C) (FAN RECOM...

Ryzen 9000/7000 Memory/Infinity Fabric general information

Infinity Fabric (FCLK)

clocks: 2000-2200 MHz

tends to scale negative with VSOC past a certain point
max clocks usually at 1.0-1.2V

has error correction. If slightly unstable will cause stuttering, hitching and audio cuts

lazy way for "stability":
just set FCLK 66MHz bellow max "functional"
for example: if 2233MHz boots and kinda runs then 2166MHz at same voltages should be 100% stable.

UCLK = MCLK / "1:1 mode" refers to memory controller and PHY/DRAM ...

MSI X870 Tomahawk PCB Breakdown Notes

Vcore
MPS MP2857 7 phase
MPS MP87670 80A SPS x2 per phase
output filtering
- 8x NipponChemicon 560uF 6.3V 10K 105C TH alu-poly
input
- 4x NipponChemicon 270uF 16V 10K 105C TH alu-poly
 1x NipponChemicon 100uF 16V 10K 105C TH alu-poly
200nH inductors
500KHz 1V SPS only
200A ~13W (9950X stock current limit is 170A)
300A ~20W
400A ~29W
500A ~42W

VSOC 
output
- 4x NipponChemicon 560uF 6.3V 10K 105...

New new discord link

Apparently the last one is broken?

So here's a new one.

https://discord.gg/FMfTk7pDxn

ASUS Pro ART X670E Creator PCB Breakdown notes

Vcore
Digi+ ASP2206 8phase
MPS MP86992 50A SPS x2 per phase
output bulk capacitors:
- 5x MIL/Nichicon FP5K? 6.3V 560uF TH alu-poly
- 4x 6.3V 150uF SMD aluminum polymers?
input bulk capacitors:
- 7x MIL/Nichicon FP5K? 16V 270uF TH alu-poly
470nH inductors
500KHz 1.2V SPS only
- 200A ~16W
- 300A ~23W
- 400A ~35W
- 500A ~49W

VSOC
Digi+ ASP2206 +2
MPS MP86992 50A SPS
output bulk capacitors:
- 3x MIL/Nichicon FP5K? 6.3V 560uF TH...

New Discord link

There was an issue with spammers and bots getting into the discord so I had to disable the old links because I guess they got leaked or something.

Anyway here's the new one

https://discord.gg/FMfTk7pDxn

Why raising tREFI or lowering tRFC has diminshing returns on performance

This recently came up on the AHOC discord but I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this in a video or something but anyway:

As tRFC ÷ tREFI approaches 0 further reductions in tRFC or increases in tREFI will impact performance less and less.

tREFI increasing:
800tRFC with 8 000 tREFI = 10% of clock cycles are spent on refresh
800tRFC with 16 000 tREFI = 5% of clock cycles are spent on refresh
800tRFC with 32 000 tREFI = 2.5% of clock cycles are spent on refresh
800tRFC with ...

ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Apex PCB Breakdown notes

A board so overkill that it uses 5x 56uF SP caps for filtering the PCI-e slot's 12V instead of the typical 1x270uF through hole polymer.

features:
POST code
Safeboot button
PWR button
RST/flex button
retry button
BCLK +/- buttons
dual BIOS
CLR_CMOS
BIOS flashback
1DPC
8 layer PCB(AFAIK)
16x 8x/8x gen5 support

CPU bulk input filter: 38x 56uF

Vcore VRM
Renesas RAA229131 12 phase
Renesas RAA22010540 105A SPS 2 per phase // 24 in total<...

2x16GB Samsung 16Gb B-die 6000CL30, Ryzen 9 7900X, Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master

CPU: Ryzen 9 7900X
Cooling: Asetek 240mm AIO
mobo: Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
BIOS: F11a

RAM:
Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX5M2B5600C36
2x16GB Samsung 16Gb B-die (single rank)
5600 36-36-36-76 1.25V XMP

RAM/SOC voltages
VSOC: 1.2V
VDDIO_MEM: 1.25V
DDR_VDD: 1.43V  // make sure your RAM has good cooling
DDR_VDDQ: 1.25V
VDDG CCD: 1050mV
VDDG IOD: 950mV
RAM/SOC clocks
MCLK: 3000MHz (= DDR5-6200)
UCLK: 3000MHz (UCLK = MCLK)
FCLK: 2167M...

7800X3D 2200 FCLK, 2x16GB DDR5-6000 CL28 Hynix 16Gb A-die, Gigabyte X670E Master

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Cooling: 240mm Asetek AIO
mobo: Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
BIOS: F10
RAM: Kingston Fury DDR5 2x16GB 7200C38 Hynix 16Gb A-die
RAM/SOC voltages
VSOC: 1.2V // High VSOC usually limits max FCLK
VDDIO_MEM: 1.3V
DDR_VDD: 1.43V  // make sure your RAM has good cooling
DDR_VDDQ: 1.3V
VDDG_CCD: 1050mV // raising this can help stabilizing high FLCK
VDDG_IOD: 950mV

RAM/SOC clocks
MCLK: 3000MHz = DDR5-6000
UCLK: 3000MHz (UCLK = MC...

What DDR5 to buy June 14 2023

The best memory chips are.
Hynix 16Gb A-die: Speeds of 8000Mbps and higher are possible if your CPU/mobo are good enough. Similar timings to 16Gb M-die

Hynix 16Gb M-die: Tends to max out between 7200 and 7600Mbps similar timings to 16Gb A-die

Hynix 24Gb M-die: Even higher clocking than 16Gb A-die. Slightly looser timings

2x16GB ===============================================

Warning if you see a memory kit with a spec like: 6400 36-46-46-100 @ 1.4V it's almost certa...

7800X3D cooling "requirements"

Struggling with recording the video for this so here's the data ahead of time.

DDR memory latency

DDR memory latency not including memory controller for a single READ command.

READ to an already active row
tCL

READ with memory idle
tRCD >> tCL

READ to a different row in the same bank as an already active row
tRP >> tRCD >> tCL

READ right before or during a refresh
tRFC >> tRCD >> tCL

READ to a different row in the same bank in which a row was just activated
tRAS >> tRP >> tRCD >> tCL

Timing...

MSI Z790i EDGE PCB Breakdown notes

8pin EPS connector filtering
2x 270uF 16V NipponChemiCon 10K polymers
3x 100uF 16V NipponChemiCon 10K polymers

Vcore power
RENESAS RAA229131 10phase
10x RENESAS RAA2210540 105A SPS
output filtering
5x 560uF NipponChemiCon 10K polymers
5x 470uF SMD polymers Panasonic SPCAPs?
220nH inductors

Expected VRM heat loss @ 1.2V 500KHz SPS + chokes
200A ~15W
300A ~27W
400A ~45W
500A ~68W
runs hot without extra airflow due the high thermal density

7200 CL34 2x16GB Hynix 16Gb M-die on MSI Z790i EDGE

CPU: i5 13600K @stock E-cores off
Cooling: fan pointed at RAM, Asetek 240mm AIO
mobo: MSI Z790i EDGE
BIOS: E7E03IMS.130
RAM: 2x16GB Kingston Fury KF560C36BBEK2-32 (single rank Hynix 16Gb M-die)

RAM / IMC voltages
VCCSA: 1.2V // upto 1.45V is safe
VCCIN: 1.8V (AUTO) // upto 2V is safe
CPU VDDQ: 1.4V // upto 1.45V is safe
CPU VDD2: 1.4V // upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VDD: 1.45V // upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VDDQ: 1.45V  // upto 1.6V is safe
RAM VPP: 1.8V (AUTO) ...

intel 13th gen DDR5 timing "cheat sheet" rev0.2

This is a list of the majority of DDR5 timings that actually have registers on intel CPUs. (there's a bunch of timings in mobo BIOSs that don't actually exist on intel CPUs for example: tWTR_S/L ). Along with my understanding of each timing. So there might be mistakes because I don't design memory controllers or memory chips.

2x16GB DDR5-6200 CL26 Hynix 16Gb A-die on B650E Aorus Master

CPU: Ryzen 5 7600X
Cooling: Xigmatek Thor's hammer+120mm fan, fan on RAM
mobo: Gigabyte B650E Aorus Master
BIOS: F4b
RAM: Gigabyte Aorus DDR5 2x16GB 7200C34 Hynix 16Gb A-die

RAM/SOC voltages
VSOC: 1.3V
VDDIO_MEM: 1.25V
DDR_VDD: 1.6V  // make sure your RAM has good cooling
DDR_VDDQ: 1.45V

RAM/SOC clocks
MCLK: 3100MHz (= DDR5-6200)
UCLK: 3100MHz (UCLK = MCLK)
FCLK: 2067MHz

Primary Timings --------------------------------------------------...

Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Tachyon PCB Breakdown notes

Vcore
RAA229131 15 phase
RAA220105 105A SPS
470nH inductors
33x 470uF output filter
16x 100uF Kemet tant input filter
1.2V 500KHz
SPS and chokes
200A 14W
300A 23W
400A 33W
500A 48W
600A 66W

iGPU
RAA229131 1phase
RAA220105 105A SPS

VCCIN AUX
MP2940 2phase
MP87992 70A SPS 95% @ 1.8V
1.8V 800KHz
40A 4W

4x M.2
10 layer shielded 1DPC // Does 8000 with the right BIOS
intel wifi6E
intel 2.5Gb Lan
PWR,RST,Limp,CLR,R...

Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite PCB Breakdown notes

Vcore
OnSemi NCP81530 8phase
16x OnSemi FDMF5062 70A SPS
bulk input filtering: 6x Nichicon FP 270uF 16V 10K@105°C
bulk output filtering: 10x Nichicon FP 560uF 6.3V 10K@105°C + 1x 330uF POSCAP in socket
400nH inductors (effectively 200nH per phase)
1.2V 600KHz
SPS and chokes
200A 16W
300A 26W
400A 38W
500A 51W
// the power plane near the CPU socket can reach over 100°C without airflow in sustained overclocked 100% loads with a 13900K due to the 6 layer PC...

EVGA Z790 DARK PCB breakdown notes

Motherboard provided by EVGA

Vcore
RAA229131
18x RAA22010540 105A SPS
bulk input filter: 8x 16V 270uF Nichicon FP10K
bulk output filter: 26x 470uF SMD poly
150nH inductors
1.2V 500KHz
SPS and chokes
200A 15W
300A 23W
400A 32W
500A 44W
600A 61W

voltage regulation and LLC:
the voltage regulation is extremely good.
optimal LLC for 24/7 overclocking is either default or +25%.
changing the VRM switching frequency up or down from 500KHz ma...