PATREON EXCLUSIVE: When To Stop Physically Escalating With A Woman

Yup! It’s called respect, a commodity in extraordinarily short supply it seems. Additional benefit to respecting the other’s needs is that you are simultaneously building self-respect. Win-win! And when you have self-respect you are so _very_ much more likely to be offered the opportunity to play hide-the-sausage.

I think it's ultimately about respect and, more importantly, love. If she says she doesn't want to go too far, then why not just do what she wants? It's like if you had a child and he made a little fort out of legos and was really happy about it. He asks you not to disassemble it. Then, for some reason, you decide to take it apart. Wouldn't that hurt the child's feelings? It's the same here. It isn't necessarily about right or wrong, but rather about showing someone that you care about how they feel.

The same thing happens to me. In face, I just now told a girl that I feel guilty for sending her suggestive photos, even though she told me in a straightforward manner that she loves them. The feel guilty because that's not who I want to be. I don't want to be that sort of person, but my emotions get the better of me.

As a guy, I find myself on the receiving end of what you describe. Whenever I show any friendliness in a woman, they figuratively "run away at top speed". I've intuitively understood why, that they thought I was desperate for lack of a better term, but when you describe it in the way that you have, it paints the picture a little more clearly, as if I got a higher definition photo to replace an older one. You mentioned that you feel safe with some men because you feel that if you gave an inch, they wouldn't take a mile. I completely understand that. It makes sense. My question is this: while considering my personal experiences with women as I described in the previous paragraph, how would you feel if they initiated? This is in reference to your saying that you dated guys who never pushed it, and that "they were always ready and welcoming if I initiated". Would you suddenly feel unsafe, feeling that they are actually the sort to be pushy with you, you just didn't know it before?

It's insane how accurate this is. It's actually this exact situation that Alexander described which led me to my full shift out of man hating feminism to the red pill. Basically, the situation Alexander described and I used the "anti-slut defense," though it was to not be perceived as a slut but also because I genuinely knew I'd feel bad if I went that far. The situation Alexander described occurred, and afterwards I went through the events in my mind and felt so betrayed, used, disgusting, and ashamed. On one hand, I was so so so angry at the guy for going further after I said (in between kissing him, might I add) that I wasn't going to sleep with him - but on the other hand, I thought, there's absolutely no way that we viewed this situation so differently. I thought, I made it clear with my words that we're not going further. Isn't that what you're supposed to do with men? Use your words? But then I thought, in the heat of the moment, he has a girl on his couch with him that he's kissing and touching, he has testosterone running through his body, he's so turned on - what does this situation look like to him? He can't see my perspective, where I'm under this huge, strong man and I don't know what might happen if I try to de-escalate, but in his perspective, I flirted with him, I agreed to go to his house at night, and now I'm on his couch letting him kiss me. Yeah, I said I didn't want to go further, but that's probably not what it looked like. This realization about the differences in perspectives between men and women brought me to the red pill, determined to learn what exactly the differences are and how they influence our behavior (eventually leading me to Alexander Grace :-) ) Additionally, I've given up on guys in the past because despite how much I wanted to get to know them, they had me feeling like I was constantly on the defense because they'd shown me they would push further even if I told them I didn't want to go further. The type of guys that you have to physically push off of you lol. These guys put you in a position where you have to actually reject them, which can be uncomfortable on both sides. On the contrary, I've dated guys who never pushed it - they were always ready and welcoming if I initiated, but I felt so comfortable, safe, and at ease around them. It also led me to be more open and affectionate because I wasn't worried that showing some interest would immediately be interpreted as sexual desire. In other words, I knew if I gave an inch they wouldn't take a mile. LOL This video is definitely one of your best, Alexander. I've been watching your videos for, I think 3 years now, and still every single one always sparks a light bulb over my head because you always say something that I never thought of before - which is not easy to do! You basically described the reason behind the #metoo movement with a reasonable explanation of both perspectives. I know this is a Patreon exclusive, but I wish this video could just pop up on everyone's phones like an amber alert lol. If every single person listened and understood this video, there would be wayyy less of these uncomfortable situations for men and women.

This discussion is the first time I've heard of the term 'anti slut defense', but I realize I've always known what it was. It reminds me of Mary Poppins. When they're in the chalk drawing and Mary and Bert are walking and singing Jolly Holiday. At the beginning of the dance break, Bert holds out his hand and Mary gives him the stiff arm while looking away with a smile and waves her hand in pretend protest.  I agree with what Alisha, Peter and Dan said above about the woman who doesn't want to be 'one of those girls' even when she is.  I think a respectable slut doesn't deny it in public or play hard to get in private.  She has no problem with being one-night stand material.   Otherwise, I would consider that behavior anti-feminist.

Jennifer Coopman

I think an even more interesting question is, when to start?

The only way to ask Alexander a question is to pay now?

It’s a negotiation, so one can of course argue both sides. However, I have found that women want a man who knows how to get what he wants. If a guy gives up on a particular occasion he betrays to her that he doesn’t know how to get what he wants, and she’s thinking it’s probably because he doesn’t have much experience and doesn’t know how to seduce and therefore the sex probably wouldn’t have been that good anyway. Nothing automatic about that framing, but I suggest it’s entirely plausible.

Todd McDaniels

Had a similar situation. This girl just said she didn't do things on the first night. She kept saying she would come over the next day to have sex. But than she slept over and was wanting to in the morning. Afterwards she seemed a bit down on herself, but long term I don't think it hurt our relationship in any way

Opportunity Investing

There is utility to anti-slut defense mechanism, indeed. But once the sexual act happens, the woman should assume responsibility for her actions instead of coming with accusations of sexual harassment or rape. Also, while traditional-conservative women tend to employ that more often, it's also them that assume the responsibility once the sexual act happened. In contrast, liberal women don't practice that anti-slut defense that much, but they mostly the ones coming with sexual harasment and rape accusations the next day.

Why do you think she did the whole "I want to but I can't" thing? Do you think it is just to show a guy that they are not one of the "bad girls"? xxx

Alisha

This is spot on. I recently slept with a girl on the first date, and it was exactly like this, hurdles to jump through for hours, lots of 'i want to but I can't' stuff. I heard 'no' dozens of times (playful no - not a hard no), but I just agreed, deescalated, and tried again later, but I think this all requires proper calibration.

Never heard the term “anti slut defense” before. In actuality it wasn’t a thing for me because I didn’t even have my first boyfriend (who was a friend first) till college and then I met my husband. But if I am being honest with myself, if I placed myself in the modern dating era with dating apps and such, I could envision myself saying things like no sex on the first date and drawing verbal boundaries upfront. And, I’d be very angry at myself the next day if I went further than those boundaries and be embarrassed by that weakness.

Hmmm I have always wondered if the anti-slut defense is true? It makes perfect sense I guess. If it is true then maybe there is a good reason for it. I have heard that lots of men categorise women into fuck material and girlfriend material so if the anti-slut defense theory is right then maybe there is some utility to it? xxx

Alisha