Who Is Ellen - 147 - HD
Added 2023-06-27 03:00:01 +0000 UTCBeware of chickens.
Commentary
This wouldn't actually happen in any game I'm aware of, but the heck with it, IT AMUSES ME.
Though it IS inspired by something! I have a vague memory of the claim that a common housecat could defeat a level 0 Non-Player Character in some version of some game.
(My understanding is a level 0 NPC would be an average person. Adventurers at level 1 would already be made of tougher stuff than normal.)
Marik is NOT a level 0 NPC, but inspiration doesn't mean you just copy something.
Sometimes, it means a hypothetical, possibly inaccurate assessment of a housecat's prowess in a TTRPG results in some guy getting knocked out by a fancy chicken.
Comments
My cat can and has bloodied me, and I am at least a level 1 peasant. I'm sure a chicken could do the same.
Alex Fellman
2023-06-28 05:43:46 +0000 UTCπ€π
Brenda
2023-06-28 00:06:34 +0000 UTCcritical chicken hit
John Trauger
2023-06-27 18:09:07 +0000 UTCIf I'm remembering correctly, in 2nd edition, it's possible there was a rule about damage penalties not reducing damage below 1 point, but there were very definitely some creatures with attacks whose base damage could sometimes be zero.
Some Ed
2023-06-27 16:59:41 +0000 UTCI've only played D&D Basic and D&D Expert released in 1983 and AD&D 2nd edition. Note that normally we forget the existence of D&D Basic, D&D Expert, and D&D Companion because we'd generally prefer to not think that TSR released a game in which all elves are multiclassed fighter/magic users, all dwarves are fighters, and all halflings are thieves. Also, elves are the only multi-class option, so just forget your ideas of being an illusionist/thief. Actually, forget illusionists also, that's just the name for one specific level of magic user (4th?). What you cite as 2nd edition rules for housecats are unfamiliar to me. Admittedly, 2nd edition had an immense number of source manuals, most of which I never bought nor even looked inside. There were at least two conflicting sets of rules for housecats and classless NPCs in the subset of books I bought, so I cannot rule out the possibility of others. That said, you presented it as if there was just one and... that's just so not my 2nd edition AD&D experience. They were pretty consistent with the core rules, but anything that they didn't cover in the original set of books that was important enough for them to document once tended to get documented as being at least a couple different ways. Deities and demigods tended to be among the exceptions as far as I'm aware - but the Deities and Demigods source book was one of the big offenders for covering bits of out of scope material and doing it differently than any book for which it was in scope. Also, not all deities and demigods were exempt; for example the entries for Tiamat in the monster manual and in deities and demigods did not completely line up.
Some Ed
2023-06-27 16:54:01 +0000 UTCThat is not the rule for 3.5e. Player's Handbook, page 134: "Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of damage." I'm more familiar with D&D and wasn't aware Pathfinder changed that rule. Either way, it doesn't change the outcome. Even in Pathfinder, the commoner loses, on average. He just gets to do one more action (while staggered) before the cat gets to act again and start dealing lethal damage, as any further damage would exceed his maximum hit points. Since he's staggered, he can either maintain the grapple or deal an average of 2 unarmed damage to the cat. Even if he deals 3, and the cat becomes staggered in turn, the cat still gets a melee attack, which starts dealing lethal damage.
Daniel
2023-06-27 16:43:24 +0000 UTCRolemaster sounds moderately similar to Powers & Perils. That didn't have the details on the lethality that Rolemaster has, but it definitely had options for an occasional starting character who could every so often get automatically fatal one shot attacks and other sorts of brokenness. The casting system was broken in both directions; if you were brave enough to play a caster, it could provide other options for excessive damage to those that the party is fighting or to the caster themselves. That said, no, it was D&D that Dan was thinking about. In 2nd edition, ordinary small animals could do attacks that did D2-1 points of damage and level 0 classless NPCs had 1 HP in some books and D4 HP in others. As far as THAC0 and AC went, that decidedly favored the small animal, as the fact they were small or tiny gave them an AC bonus, in addition to possibly having extra dodge ability as well (for example, the house cat.) I was in fact in a number of games where ordinary NPCs were defeated by ordinary pets.
Some Ed
2023-06-27 16:07:54 +0000 UTCThis scenario falls under the category "Bet They Didn't See That Coming."
kaitou
2023-06-27 15:01:53 +0000 UTCIt already WAS in Murphy's Rules; there was one about a STR 10 normal destroying a car in there.
Jenora Feuer
2023-06-27 14:20:52 +0000 UTC"There's no reason a housecat wouldn't deal lethal damage immediately." Rules. "Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage (see page 191)." It is not limited to weapons, and 1d3-4 or 1d2-4 always result in less than 1 point of damage. BTW, without that rule, the cat attacks wild deal no damage at all, as the result is always a negative number.
Diego Rossi
2023-06-27 13:54:27 +0000 UTCBeware of Chicken: A Xianxia Cultivation Novel https://a.co/d/f2aVNh2
TwoRavens
2023-06-27 12:55:09 +0000 UTCFa Bi De, First Disciple of Fa Ram, approves this message.
TwoRavens
2023-06-27 12:53:59 +0000 UTCIt would be extremely difficult for me to be speaking of 1e or 2e as they're games I've never played.
B. Ratcliff
2023-06-27 11:22:36 +0000 UTCThere's no reason a housecat wouldn't deal lethal damage immediately. They'd have to choose to deal non-lethal damage. They're using natural attacks, not unarmed strikes. Damage has a minimum threshold of 1. You can't deal less than 1 damage with an attack that hits. Also, a commoner only has 1d4 hp in 3rd edition. Pathfinder ups it to 1d6. The cat also has only 2 hp in 3.5 (as it has Β½ d8), which is upped to 3 in Pathfinder. But let's just say 4 hp for the commoner and 3 hp for the cat. The cat has 3 attacks: 2 claws with +4 to hit and a bite with -1 to hit. The commoner has 10 AC. The cat has 14. So assuming average hits, the commoner is unconscious and bleeding within 2 rounds. The cat wins initiative, attacks and hits with its claws, dealing 2 damage. The commoner either misses with an attack (average hit is a total of 10) or succeeds in a grapple (if we assume Pathfinder) -- at which point the cat knocks him to 0 hp with more claw attacks that would still hit even with the penalty from grappling -- the attacks are reduced to +0 to hit, which still hits the commoner's 10 AC on average. If the commoner does anything strenuous, such as trying to maintain the grapple, he immediately takes 1 damage and falls unconscious. In short, don't underestimate the average housecat.
Daniel
2023-06-27 09:53:11 +0000 UTCOh man, that takes me back... Such a good campaign they ran.
jubs
2023-06-27 09:48:01 +0000 UTCGetting over the "don't hurt the kitty!" would definitely be the hardest part. =/
jubs
2023-06-27 09:47:08 +0000 UTCYou are speaking of AD&D 1st or 2nd edition, not D&D 3.x or Pathfinder. Actually, D&D 3.x or Pathfinder partially corrected that, a common cat in them does 1d2-4 with its claws and 1d3-4 with its bite, those number translate into 1 and 1 points of non lethal damage. The cat has 3 hp. A commoner has 1d6 hp +/- constitution bonus, so the average guy has 4 hp. So the cat needs at least 2 rounds to get the commoner into an unconscious state and will start to deal deadly damage after another 3-4 rounds. The commoner will deal 1d3+strength bonus non lethal with fists or 1d6 lethal + strength bonus with a club, but grappling the cat would be way more efficient, as the tiny size of the cat becomes a disadvantage. Once it is grappled the cat has little chance to survive. Rule Lawyer ;-)
Diego Rossi
2023-06-27 07:04:02 +0000 UTCWe played it, it was good, but it required a lot of time to rise in level, and first level character were generally weak. Plenty of old games were complicated. Look Starfleet Battles or Advanced Squad Leader with all the rules and expansions.
Diego Rossi
2023-06-27 06:49:22 +0000 UTCI once ran a horror campaign in which wave after wave of housecats continuously attacked the players. I called it... The Meowing.
John Beattie
2023-06-27 06:16:05 +0000 UTCMaribel: the true GMPC.
Michael Chui
2023-06-27 05:14:01 +0000 UTCFear the chicken. Respect the chicken
KC
2023-06-27 04:54:11 +0000 UTCHope that doesn't deprive the party of XP.
Stephen Gilberg
2023-06-27 04:28:38 +0000 UTCHuh... I was wondering if you were going to pull a Cuckoo attack. :)
Joshua Brumley
2023-06-27 04:21:57 +0000 UTCYou trip over an unseen imaginary deceased turtle. Lose one turn.
Narzain
2023-06-27 04:14:11 +0000 UTCThat's one for Murphy's Rules!
Narzain
2023-06-27 04:13:09 +0000 UTCI heard it as cat vs L1 wizard: https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=912 (E3.5)
Walter Kolczynski
2023-06-27 04:10:22 +0000 UTCOne punch!! Er, peck!
Wild Card
2023-06-27 03:58:24 +0000 UTC"GO! Chicken attaaaaAAAaaack!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miomuSGoPzI
Jeff Gedney
2023-06-27 03:44:36 +0000 UTCHousecats got double the Small bonus because they were Tiny. Also the same bonus applied to Armor Class, so the commoner had very little chance of getting a hit in with their attack bonus of +0 if they beat the odds and won initiative
Jared Fattmann
2023-06-27 03:36:32 +0000 UTCPretty sure a housecat could defeat *me* unless I'm armed with oven mitts and a towel. π€£
Inahc
2023-06-27 03:19:33 +0000 UTC"It's the Chickenpocalypse!!"
B. Ratcliff
2023-06-27 03:16:54 +0000 UTCYep, sounds about right.
Trip Space-Parasite
2023-06-27 03:12:16 +0000 UTCIt might not be the only one, or the one you're specifically thinking of, but this was a common truth repeated about Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 Edition and its spiritual and mechanical successor Pathfinder 1st Edition. An average commoner had 2 or 4 hit points (an average or max, depending on system, on a 4-sided die with a +0 modifier) and a defense that meant your total of 20-sided die roll plus attack score would have to equal 10 or higher. A housecat had an attack bonus of roughly +3 or 4, plus a bonus for being small, so essentially a ~75% chance to hit, and two claw attacks that dealt 1d4 damage. So roughly half the time, a commoner could be knocked to 0 or negatives by one hit, and half the rest of the time would be finished off by the second swipe. Then add the bite attack and it pretty much guarantees a win for the cat.
B. Ratcliff
2023-06-27 03:12:15 +0000 UTCAh, Rolemaster! I don't think anyone ever really played Rolemaster. It was ridiculously over-complex and required way more math than Your average gamer wanted to deal with. We just bought the source books to laugh at the critical fumble tables.
Hurley
2023-06-27 03:09:31 +0000 UTCSmall Animal Crit Table from RoleMaster might be what you're thinking of. I won't try to explain RM because I never understood it myself, but it had lots of crit tables for all kinds of violent events and the upper end could be pretty lethal on even the least of them.
Trip Space-Parasite
2023-06-27 03:05:31 +0000 UTCI was one of the first players of the original *Champions* RPG. It was my gaming group that pointed out to Hero Games that in their system, an ordinary schoolchild could punch her way through a concrete wall in about 30 seconds. The front armor of a main battle tank, an adult could kick their way through in a minute. They fixed that in second edition. They also made us playtesters.
Carl Fink
2023-06-27 03:03:40 +0000 UTCyes, that's probably the same face I'd make if i saw a chicken suddenly KO my enemy right in front of me. Or watch it summon a horde of other chickens until the offender falls, Zelda style
Joe Blue
2023-06-27 03:03:36 +0000 UTC
