Podcast Questions

Hey Chris. We answered this in part on this podcast, but I'll be sure to answer it in full on the next one!

Resonant Arc

We didn't end up having time to do a predictions section, but my understanding of the ending--taking some quotes from Sephiroth, Aerith, and the last title you see right before the credits into account--is that they will not follow the original story at all from here on out. They will essentially rewrite an entirely new story, and I have an enormous suspicion that they will bring Zack into the party somehow from the alternate timeline where he survives. In other words, it's about to get really, really dumb.

Resonant Arc

Hey man, I wanted to respond to this here because we didn't have time to get to it in the podcast. You're absolutely right with your first point. I just wanted to comment on that and say that it definitely has a large part in determining whether older fans will appreciate these changes or not. As for where it might be going? My understanding, taking some quotes from Sephiroth, Aerith, and the last title you see right before the credits into account, is that they will not follow the original story at all from here on out. They will essentially rewrite an entirely new story, and I have an enormous suspicion that they will bring Zack into the party somehow from the alternate timeline where he survives. In other words, it's about to get really, really dumb.

Resonant Arc

I have one comment I'd like to make and one question (I've edited this to remove some of the more unnecessary stuff and crass language that my first draft had): 1) You've mentioned in past podcasts how remakes are made almost solely for contemporary audiences and never for fans of the original. There's actually a psychological reason for this. To simplify, the prefrontal cortex is the part of your brain which is mostly associated with cognitive development and personality variables, and is ultimately responsible for determining which things you "like" and which things you "don't like." How these things all end up coming together and shaping out over time depends on various genetic and environmental factors while you are growing up. The prefrontal cortex is most malleable when you are a young child, but it begins myelinating ("locking down") once you hit puberty and doesn't finish until you are about 30. Once you reach 30, you are pretty much "set in [your] ways" and who you are is more or less set in stone for the remainder of your life. While you are not rendered completely impervious to outside forces or life-altering revelations from that point onward, it does become much more difficult for you to change your outlook on the world and learn to accept things that conflict with your pre-existing preferences. I was born in 1998 and didn't play FFVII for the first time until I was 15, so I'm actually alright with the episodic structure and MOST of the changes that are being made. However, I am nonetheless skeptical of some of the more drastic ones such as the ending of Part 1, and I am concerned about where the future episodes will lead to (or how many there will be for that matter--my best guess is 7). 2) Given your knowledge of Square Enix games, what are some of your predictions for future episodes? Do you think they're trying to turn FFVII into the next Marvel Cinematic(-ish) universe? Given the episodic structure and how Square Enix chose to end Part 1 of this Remake, I would not be surprised if the following episodes all end up being expanded to include the compilation materials such as Genesis and Angeal, Vincent's "relationship" with Shelke and the Tsviets, Cid's trip into outer space will see them encountering the Bahamut summons and learning that the Meteor is actually their home planet which has been weaponized by JENOVA, and I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I would wager that all of this is going to culminate in an "ultimate ensemble battle" at the end of the final part which sees ALL of the people of Gaia--from the warriors of Wutai, to the remaining members of Red XIII's race, to the prisoners in the Sand Dunes and even the former officers of Shinra--taking up arms and mounting an enormous herd of armoured Chocobos and launching an all-out war on a never-ending army of JENOVA clones at the Northern Cave while the main heroes battle their way down to Sephiroth at the planet's core. Genesis will probably end up undergoing some sort of heroic redemption arc, another character will end up losing an eye, Barrett will come out as gay, Cloud will become fat and depressed like Thor after Aerith's death, the Knights of the Round will be revealed as gods who created the world and ruled over the ancients before JENOVA came along, and then in a post-credits scene, Cloud and Tifa will end up having a child together as a result of them 'getting physical' under the Highwind right before the final battle. Bonus points if there is a Chrono Trigger-like plot device whereby the characters have to use time travel in order to prevent Aerith's death and stop Sephiroth and the remnants from returning in Advent Children.

Agreed. I love how Britt Baron manages to sound both tough and mature, yet sweet and soothing all at the same time.

I for one think that fake-outs are alright so long as they are convincing and there is a clear, rational explanation for how they survived. The original FFVII did this with Cait Sith at the temple of ancients, with the designers stating that the purpose of the scene was to make the player feel as though death is no big deal in VII's story, only to then pull the rug out from under them shortly thereafter with Aerith's death. It's possible that Square Enix is using the fake-outs here in Part 1 to try and build up towards Aerith's eventual death scene in one of the later episodes. In the original game, Aerith's death worked because the scene is so clearly telegraphed in such a way that the player can immediately assume that she is dead and that nothing will be capable of bringing her back. Where we start to run into problems however, is when there are so many fake-outs throughout the story that the player feels unconvinced when a character actually IS killed off for realsies. For example, some FFVII players were initially confused by Aerith's death because the battle-text was mistranslated and they thought that Phoenix Downs were actually resurrecting "dead/KO'd" party members. If Square Enix wishes to avoid this problem of fake-outs leading to confusion within the audience by the time that Aerith dies, then they're going to have to provide an explanation for what Aerith is vulnerable to so that we--the player(s)--can immediately tell whether or not she has suffered an exceptionally fatal injury. For example, if future episodes explicitly state that Aerith will die from one stab to the heart (with absolutely NO exceptions) and then--lo and behold--Sephiroth (Jenova) stabs her directly through the heart with his Masamune, then it is far more likely to have the intended emotional impact. To put it simply, the audience cannot take the story (and the threat of death) seriously if they do not understand what the characters are vulnerable to. This is why Predator (1987) is so tense whereas The Predator (2018) has no tension. In the former, the Predator is vulnerable to bullets and could easily be killed by a few, well-placed shots. In the latter, the Predator is an indestructible tank who can survive a freaking grenade launcher blast. The result is this: In Predator (1987), the audience is hoping/waiting for the CHARACTERS to finally defeat the predator with what little time and options they have. But in The Predator (2018), the audience is left waiting for the WRITER to decide when the monster will finally be killed off for real. Where is the tension in that?

Thanks, man! :)

Well, that isn't exactly what I was trying to get across, however, I do prefer the Tifa and Cloud relationship, so I guess we can agree on that. Haha.

Hat

I absolutely agree. Cloud and Tifa's relationship is one of my favourite aspects of the story, and I am huge Cloti shipper because of it. I am dying to see the two of them kiss underneath the highwind right before the final battle.

"back up my opinion that FF7 could have always fit into a single game on modern consoles. Square just didn't want this particular product to." Strangely I agree. It's one of the most classic games ever - everyone knows the surprises, everyone knows how the story will end - it's the doom of remakes (No offense, Links Awakening). What they actually did was shock people into 'hey you don't actually know where this is going'.. pretty intense. I just wish it was all one game instead of 3 (ish?) episodes.

Michael R

"I fear that Square will veer into KH territory with this. And it further feels like they don’t really understand the heart of their original game. " Never played it but from what I hear that's right where Tetsuya Nomura is taking it. For some reason that story sounds convoluted, but this one just sounds like a Gaiden/Alternate Story.

Michael R

Much of the game’s controversy seems to be revolving around the twist of Sephiroth and the Arbiters of Fate. However, I’d like to ask the panel about the thought of bringing characters back from the dead or “death fakeout” scenes and how that affects the player’s experience with the story in general. By the end of this game, many of the important characters who either died or nearly died turn out to not be dead (Barett, Biggs, all of the important characters from Sector 7, and possibly Zack, Jessie, and even Wedge). The story toys around with making you think characters are dead only to bring them back shortly after their death scene or at the end of the game. I’d like to point out that this issue is one of the major criticisms of Final Fantasy IV’s story, as we are led to believe that Palom, Porom, Cid, Yang, and Tellah all die, but only one of them was actually killed. All the rest of the characters come back somehow near the end of the story. Final Fantasy VII Remake seems to have this same issue, where the moment of a character’s death is given proper build up or surprise factor, but is undermined later on when they come back. Barrett and Tifa’s grieving scene in the immediate aftermath of the sector 7 tragedy is one of the best scenes in the game. But with so many important characters either not dying or possibly surviving in an alternate universe, it makes it very difficult for me, the player, to still feel the same way that the characters feel in that moment when replaying the game. The performances and presentation are still great, but the dramatic weight of the moment is missing now when it comes to that scene's part in the overarching narrative. This seems to be a very different approach to how the original FF7 handled death in it's story. I’d like to get the panel’s thoughts on this.

I've had to grapple with how I looked at this game. ThorHighHeels did an amazing (and very long) video on FF7R and everything it expanded upon and improved from the original. I think he had a lot of good points, but also was accurate in ending his video on saying all this extra content would have bloated the original game and made it worse. FF7R's pacing works for its product, but not that of the original. Such statements, I think, also back up my opinion that FF7 could have always fit into a single game on modern consoles. Square just didn't want this particular product to. I'm at a point where I personally almost don't even consider FF7R FF7-related at all. Yes, it's recreating and expanding a lot of the material in Midgar, but seemingly at the cost of trying to literally overwrite the product that came before. I can't figure out whether I find this game to be cynical or celebrating the original. The game seems to want both, but I want to know where you guys fall on this subject. Is this idea of rewriting fate, and therefore the original game, some way to address criticisms of the original while keeping the good parts, or is this the pinnacle of SE ridiculousness and just cashing in on brands with nothing genuinely new to contribute (like Disney remakes)?

Drake Chandler

I’m still interested in hearing your opinions on the nature of the creative innovator and if we’re all doomed to lose “it” at some point. All the stuff I messaged you on Twitter a while back. For FF7R related. Spoilers for those who haven’t played/watched spoiler videos because you can’t afford a PS4 like me: How would you do an alternate/parallel reality story for FF7 that feels true to the spirit of FF7? This came up for me because I think Star Trek 09 is one of the best reimaginings of a franchise I’ve ever seen, because it managed to both be a sequel and a reboot. It allowed the creators to tell new stories with characters we loved without having to go “Remember all that stuff you loved before? Didn’t happen.” We can talk about the success of the following new stories, but the way they set it up was quite clever I felt. AND was perfectly in sync with Trek DNA. In theory, I’m 100% on board with a FF7 story that finds a clever way to retell our favorite story in a way that does not negate the original content, or add convoluted retcons. But it should feel connected to the DNA of FF7. For all the six-fi/fantasy elements of 7, alternate reality and fate wraiths don’t feel like FF7. And while I don’t think it’s necessary, I do think simplicity is usually better. Trek 09 kept its explanation of creating a new timeline fairly simple and moved on from there. It didn’t get into the weeds on the nature of how this new timeline was created. Quick 2 minute monologue from future Spock and we left it at that. I fear that Square will veer into KH territory with this. And it further feels like they don’t really understand the heart of their original game. So that said, how would you do it? Take it as a writing exercise. Maybe it has something to do with Sephiroth still being trapped in the life stream. Maybe the life stream transferred all realities, it’s the thread that connects them together, and Sephiroth is trying to run through every reality he can and find the version where he wins? Who knows, just thought it could be fun to try and imagine how to do the alternate reality concept in a way that stays true to the themes and heart of FF7.

I watched a Jimquisition video yesterday called false advertising vs Narrative subversion - https://youtu.be/Qk6YOdayoeg - Where he held the idea that that whether people accept it as the second concept or the first is simply whether they create a good product or not. What is the panel's position on this? My point of view about this discussion is simply that What fans had been asking for years was a remake, not a re-imagining. New audiences may like the remake in the form that they got it but that does not mean that it was a better decision than it would have been to do an actual remake with added depth (which is both what they promised and what the fans wanted). PS please read out all of JonahtheMann's guess at where the sequel will go, I expect it to be a pretty accurate description of how modern squeenix plotting goes.

ChocolateRob

How do you feel about, Cloud still believing he was in Soldier, and fighting Sephiroth, and standing toe-to-toe with him? One of my favorite aspects of FFVII, is the dynamic Tifa and Cloud have in the lifestream. Mainly, the manipulation Jenova/Sephiroth held over Cloud, was a result of his own poor self-image. The belief that he was weak, and “not enough”, lured him into believing that he wasn’t even a real person. Once Tifa, is able to “flip the script” in his mind in the lifestream, Cloud realizes he did have value as a person, and is suddenly strong enough to defeat Sephiroth. This was in parallel to Sephiroth, who never quite found the value in who he was, and in shame of being a “puppet” and an “experiment”, it drove him to become a monster, in search of finding value in his life. I’ve always felt this was a powerful message, about the importance of life, and the value you place on your own. As we can see with Cloud, the more he believed he was a worthless person, the more that almost became a self-fulfilling prophecy. However, when these self-deprecating thoughts are brought to Tifa's attention, she provides a completely different perspective for Cloud, which enables him to view his entire life through a different lens. For example, the catalyst for Cloud’s poor self-image, is a moment when he was a child, and felt weak for not protecting Tifa from getting hurt as child. It was said Tifa almost died, and Tifa’s father yelled at Cloud for this, which happened to be the same day Tifa’s mother died. It was very traumatic for him. Yet, when Tifa sees this memory, she thought it was brave that all the other children abandoned her except Cloud, and if it wasn’t for him, she may have actually died. Or later, Cloud felt so ashamed for not making it in Soldier, and thus, "unable to keep his promise", yet when Tifa sees what happened in Nibleheim, her response, was "You were there for me.", just like when they were children. Not to mention, he was brave enough to stand against Sephiroth despite his perceived shortcomings, to protect those around him. Basically, Cloud had many admirable qualities, that he just failed to see until Tifa flipped the script in his mind. While this is a fantasy setting, and exaggerated, I think we all have succumbed to negative thinking patterns, that when presented with an alternative point of view, are shown to be completely baseless. With all this said, how do you feel about, Cloud still believing he was in Soldier, and fighting Sephiroth, and standing toe-to-toe with him? I realize he technically fought him in Nibelheim, but, that was more of a lucky act of desperation, rather than what we see at the ending of this game.

Hat

I'm one of those people how didn't purchase the game until now i want to see where it will end and when ,and i don't mind the spoilers.

FFXIIKD

Not counting the characters who were non existant before like Jessie, who do you guys think got the best treatment in Remake? Personally I think Tifa was pretty perfect, her VA was probably the best of the new bunch. Thanks!

Also, no spoilers but discussion of where sequels may go after the *suprise* ending. :)

Michael R

Hi Mike, sounds great - please comment on the difference between classic FF7 and the seeming 'Kingdom Hearts/FF13'-ification. Please discuss the pros and cons (and yes, SE making more money could be a pro, if you believe so).

Michael R