Chapterhouse Session III Questions & Observations

What’s your take on Daniel and Marty? Is Duncan breaking the fourth wall on Frank and Beverly, or is it final form of face dancers?

Why do you think Lucilla trolls the spider queen? Also what is it about democracies, regulations and juries that provokes Dama into a rage? Has this rereading made you reflect on the state of modern politics? I see so many similarities with Honoured Matres in our current politics - these self serving politicians and bureaucrats are leading us all into a death spiral. Also love Ordrade’s dance of the oyster soup with her chef- another super cute interaction.

So... I don't know about you but I get tired of Exposition between Goofus Honored Matre against Gallant Bene Gesserit. If Herbert wanted to write lecture notes on his conception of government, he could've gotten a PhD and joined the ranks of professor of political science or something, but I guess he hated institutions so he just imagined fictional ones that would go on for a looong time, much beyond actual human institutions. "Power attracts the corruptible" is an unfalsifiable statement with respect to "power corrupts", which makes the statement vacuous. Also, more food (clams! oysters!). You'd think thousands of years in the future they'd know cooking doesn't actually eliminate the alcohol unless you do it for like 3 hours, (it takes a long time to completely evaporate) but I can't fault Herbert for falling for this misconception/myth. Space Rabbi is yet another one to think or utter "how dare" a lower person talk back/teach them. Also "knowledge can come from a weed" #420. Speaking of silly musings, how does Shabbat work in space? Week days are very much "Old Terra" bound things. More food growing stuff in the last chapter, with all this talk of desertification, it reminds me of California. And basically most of the Western US except for the Pacific Northwest, for now.

PJ B

Session III (205-304) Numerous like last time, but never fear. These are -better- curated observations (and fewer of them by 1/3) because I started in on this concurrent with work at 5:30am. And even better (if not for my bottom line) because I was forced off the work system at 8:00 by the system going down. You'll have to be selective again but it -should- be less awkward than last time, thankfully. The desire to give you more of a break clashes with the desire to finish strong for the last club. We're going 100 pages at a shot and there are so many bangers... p.205-218 Lucilla's final encounter with Dama reads like a Richard Bandler NLP primer where Herbert talks about watching for her to nod in time with Lucilla's words, etc. The only thing missing almost is for Lucilla to muse "Dama is looking down and to the left -- that's introspective. No wait--she's left handed. Reverse that." At the time the readership was much smaller for NLP material I am thinking so seeing it as a feature in science fiction had more punch to it. Apparently salespeople for example are sometimes taught to map whether someone is looking up/down and left/right to match which senses that people are accessing in their thoughts in real-time but I am nowhere near good enough to do it that fast, not having taken an actual course in it. p.222 "Face your fears or they will climb over your back" That one was sufficiently worth spoilering that you recall that I threw that in chat some while back, possibly just during a watch-along instead of Dune Club. Can't remember quite when. p.226 "It is difficult for us to let you make your own mistakes." One of the hardest things for undergrad engineering professors to do is to maintain problem-solving rigor especially with current generations reaching college with really poor problem solving skills. That cat and mouse game is emotionally wrenching for them at times and I saw it firsthand as a student. p.230 "Mistakes never happen." "Ohhh. lovely!" this reminds me of the 25% of humans who get every question wrong. The Bag of Unconsciousness. p.234 "Sympathy for the enemy." Frank calls it out as a negative but is it like Paul at the end of the first book when he couldnt even bring himself to hate the Emperor or Harkonnens because they were just dancing to the larger pattern. If one really can see the macro picture does one have the clinical detachment to see that 'simply this is a reflexive system and the enemy might not actually be my enemy'. p.239-240 It is the perfect troll at work to tell the dog and the clams story in Microsoft Teams some day when a coworker grouses about something, and -not- tell where the story came from, like a little veiled jab. "Yeah I can see how that sucks. There once was a dude who's dog hated clams..." p.259 "Tolstoy was a -family- name!" reminding us of other members: Count Petr Tolstoy was out there slaving away as a diplomat for Tsar Peter the Great in the late 1600's early 1700's at one point landing in the Dungeon of The Seven Bastions for his troubles. He was not physically -young- when subjected to that either. At the time that Tsar Peter wrested power from his sister Sofia in 1689 and ended her regency, Tolstoy was briefly in Sofia's faction before rapidly switching sides. p.263 One Time Cover - there is possibly a related cryptological term, the 'One Time Pad' and there is a wikipedia page on this term for those interested. p.265 "Time does not count itself." beautifully brief chapter headers just like "All states are abstractions" earlier in this section. p.277 "Odi et amo. Excrucior." The sweetness of Latin's brevity. p.280 "Couldn't she be silent while he looked at it?" Duncan mirroring Scytale's opinion that Odrade chatters on. p.285 "If I can't laugh at myself I'm really lost." possibly the point of greatest overlap between myself and this Duncan, right here. p.288 the chapter heading speaks of Art that imitates life in a compelling way - apart from art that mirrors conventional life processes, would we say that even art that is intended to be a shock still taps back to some part of our natural brain that isn't presently being frequently used, like an unused RAM location in a computer or the way we no longer have a use for our appendix, but we -used- to p.295 explaining to farmers...that their way of life is going to hit a WALL. Because sandworm.