Heretics of Dune Club Session V: Questions and Observations

I really liked the bullet time scene. Heretics of Dune came out in '84, do you think there was a bullet time scene in a book before that?

p.494 Thin datacase - the official observer. Figuring this guy to be the exact opposite of the geeky kid with a bunch of random things in their pocket all the time (and being teased for such) while at school. Certainly how I reflected upon this when I read it in 1985. p.502 Dit, Dat and Dot make their reappearance. p.506 Carlana getting tricked is one of my more favorite Teg recollections. p.510 the head-tail snake and Watts Wave 2, except of course here it's the wild ass of the desert p.512-515 "I think we finally meet as strangers." This is paced really nicely where Taraza initially takes the tough line she and Bellonda agree needs to be taken with Odrade, then backs off a little bit with acknowledgement that Odrade has equally been through a rough patch and is fatigued in her own separate way, before going back to doing the testing that needs to be done. p. 526 "Whatever happens, we must punish them." This must be the passage I was anticipating that is so amusing with the interservice rivalry between Bene Tleilax and Bene Gesserit. Like Bones and Spock sparring, or Elves and Dwarves in Tolkien. 'A good thonging is on the way', as Paul Bettany said as Chaucer to Mark Addy's character in A Knight's Tale. p. 527 "Historians exercise great power and some of them know it." Historical revisionism is such a current topic right now with the debate about the educational system p. 528 "Your name is Wose." Another name for Tleilaxu (the way Ledden Pook sounded like a hobbit name) seemingly out of Tolkien's Anglo-Saxon kit bag - Turin Turambar is insulted by Saeros in the Silmarillion by being called a 'woodwose'. p.540-41 I dislike sullying Dune with a Star Wars reference, but I feel like the closest thing we have seen on-screen to a whole array of suspensored vehicles just moving slowly along in a countryside is that surface battle on in Episode I on Naboo in grassland with the forcefields. p.560 "What is your plan, Bashar?" "I know I'm winning, and I know I'll win. But what the -next- move is..."--Peter O'Toole as Henry II, The Lion In Winter(1968)

OK, I managed to finish the reading. 1- There’s mention of “3 P-O” and this was written in the 80s, any chance this is a nod to the short-lived C3PO cereals? Remember those? j/k but this was written after Star Wars, given how much Star Wars owes to the Dune universe, this had to be intentional, right? 2- Bellonda is another fat Bene Gesserit, I couldn’t help to imagine her speaking with your female troll voice 3- Frank Herbert is horny again with the boasting about sex positions and pleasure centers… as if there were other ways to achieve orgasm than watching Duncan climb a cliff 4- Teg gets tortured and unlocks Fry from Futurama’s 100 coffee time-defying reflexes. Maybe Dune influenced Futurama too. 5- We finally get some food description, not quite yet GRRM level though, I guess we shall see in the final book. But maybe Frank got more hungry with his wife dealing with cancer treatments. 6- One chapter starts with a Leto II quote about historians recreating the past to fit their interpretation. While this is true to some extent, it is phrased in a way that makes it sound somewhat nefarious, in the sense that historians start with an interpretation then rewrite the history. While good historians should absolutely question past interpretations of history and visit aspects not explored by others, and correct past fabrications and misinterpretations, it is not all about fitting a preconceived interpretation but discovering new things and forgotten lore about the past.

PJ B

Observations: 1. When Lucilla is talking to the crone face thing who is assisting them, and they discuss Lucillas sexual abilities I actually found it amusing. Vaginal Pulses, Genital Temp. I would love to see the course titles for a Bene Gesserit University. 2. When Miles Teg first experiences the T-probe, he speculates that the pain must be comparable to that which BG Reverend Mothers experience in the spice agony. It turns out that this is appropriate, since he undergoes a comparable transformation. If the BG knew this was happening, they would crap themselves in fear that some new version of the Kwisatz Haderach had somehow snuck in under the radar. 3. I enjoy the gradual revelation of the peoples of the scattering. They sort of fill the same narrative niche that non-terrestrial intelligence fills in most other science fiction. It occured to me that since the people of the scattering had no way to get access to spice, they probably have a markedly shorter average life span than those in the old imperium. Remember what Taraza said about humans in the past who had shorter lifespans, and thus were more frenetic. The people of the scattering may well have experienced the 1000 plus years of the scattering as covering twice as many generations as the people of the old imperium. And thus may have developed twice as fast. Thus the alien nature of the returnees, and their access to frightening new tech like the t-probe and things like the frame bushes. 4. A horrible realization about the Axolotl tanks. The Tleilaxu really DO deserve to be punished. Question: I am still not sure of the Duncan Ghola - does he have just the memories of his first life until he died holding the line for Paul, plus the memories of his current iteration, or does he have the memories of each ghola iteration (the same way the Tleilaxu master gholas have continuous experience)?