PATREON EXCLUSIVE: Are There Any Dangers In Asking Your Girlfriend To Be A Stay At Home Mother?

My mom has always worked part-time as a nurse. She worked night shifts when my brother and I were really young to take care of us during the day, then started working mornings while we were in school. On Mondays we'd hang out at our grandparents' house when she had the afternoon shift. That arrangement seemed to work for everyone and it's about what I'd expect from a wife in the future.

There is probably an issue with a clear understanding of the expectations of the relationship. This will be tough to get her to step up. Maybe you should quit work. Maybe you should stop flushing the toilet. I'm kidding, but when people are not pushing themselves, they tend to be unhappy and are consciously aware of not living up to their potential

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. I've been with my wife since 2001, married since 2003. There were several points in our relationship where she was between jobs, and I supported her. And ever since our first child was born in 2007, she has not returned to work. In the earlier days of me supporting her (before the children), I was often disappointed because she would not do any housework. I was super disappointed when we'd leave dishes in the sink from dinner the previous night, and she did not take care of them during the day while I was at work. Basically no housework would be done. I let that idea slip once kids entered the picture, as raising kids is a full-time job, but once our children entered the school system, I started to resent the lack of effort from my wife again. There is a distinct lack of socialization on her part as well. Part of that could be embarrassment on her part (the house is a mess, I don't want people coming over to see it), or maybe she's seeking socialization by playing on-line video games, but the only time she would ever leave the house would be to pickup groceries once every other week. Covid-19 also brought a bunch of challenges (an excuse to continue our hermit-like behavior), as well as the kids being home more often, but these issues stretch back much further than that.

I know part of my (negative) attitude toward SAHMs stems from 2 main personal experiences. 1) My mom and grandmother seemed miserable in their SAHM lives whereas female family members and moms of friends who worked seemed happier. This set a tone very early on. 2. When I graduated HS, I nannied full-time for 2 girls, aged 4 and 7. Just me and them for the entire summer before I went to college (their parents were overseas). At the time I was like - what an awesome gig! I got paid well, hung out with the girls, and the cooking, cleaning, washing etc was easy enough and were things I would have done for myself anyway - so it just felt like more volume with their stuff. They were a wealthy family with a house on the beach so “car pooling” was riding bikes to and from the house to the community center where’d they do activities- the 7 year old on her own bike and the 4 year old in a seat on the back of the bike I rode. I’d have alone time while they were doing these activities. By the end of the summer, I was relaxed but completely bored out of my gourd. Had the family not been so wealthy and the kids been babies, it would have been a completely different experience, I’m sure. Plus, I realize the kids were in like vacation mode so that played a factor in my short-lived experience. That said, whenever I meet SAHMs of school aged children, I admit I initially judge them as being dumb, lazy, or having some type of emotional problem. In my 44 years, I can count on one hand the number of SAHMs who proved these initial thoughts wrong - and they either had a ton of kids or were very active in other ways. If cultural/socio-economic factors play a role, I should caveat I grew up in a low-middle class, white family in a rural area. After marrying and both my husband and I growing our careers we fall into an upper-middle, white, suburb category. 70% of my company is working women- most with kids. But, my husband is in construction, which is male dominated. So, I’ve met quite a few SAHMs who were wives of guys he worked with. 75% of those men ended up divorced. The other 25% of men are still married but miserable (or so they tell my husband).

Overall I liked this video and it's one of my favorite subjects. There is a lot Alexander said I find to be true and I was impressed, as usual, with the nuanced takes.  My favorite part of the video was his statement about balance. I agreed with every word and he warmed my heart! But I admit, I disagreed with some of the viewpoints. Please don't confuse lack of intellectual stimulation with having nothing to do. Stay at home moms have lots to do and are very busy,  especially if there are multiple children. Yes, certain household jobs have gotten easier or gone away, but others have cropped up. They traded the washboard for carpooling the kid's soccer team around, if that makes sense? Their days are full, even if they aren't fulfilling. I mean, the soap opera-watching/bonbon-eating stereotype is kaput now, right? Maybe not...? Alexander mentions feminist backlash and there is definitely that!  I have felt it myself when talking to other women about parenting, and I'm sure I've done it to other women at least once. Feminists as a group do not seem to agree on anything in this matter, and women in general love love LOVE mommy shaming, even if we do it in our own heads. So it's hard to say what the 'feminist' take your girl is going to have, or might get from other women. The SJW viewpoint I really didn't like. Alexander mentioned a collective society, but i feel like he showed his objectivism with this one. Moms care about stuff that affect their kids. So naturally moms will have opinions, fears, questions, ideas, same as men and childless women. Also, if you're worried about what the mother of your children watches or is exposed to, maybe it would be better to watch with her, or ask her if she watched/read anything interesting today. It's hard to be mad at Alexander for that one though because in an older video he describes a woman he knows who is more interested in protesting/activism than actually spending time with the kids she claims to be protecting. I can see how that disconnect might worry a guy. It's critical that children are taught to care about the society they live in and the parents need to set examples of this. People use SJW as an insult because it means liberal, but you can be a conservative activist too, if that's how you lean. Next disagreement, giving up your career to have children does not equal depression. Many women (and some men even) have happily given up, or put on pause, careers to be the parent they want to be. Do SOME women regret that decision? Of course some do. But I don't think it's wise to assume that a woman who sacrifices for her children is by unhappy by default. The socialization issue is important, but not just because women want to hang out with their friends. Some want older women in the family around who can assist with the child rearing and give motherly advice because there are some things a man just can't help his woman with.  And sometimes our peers cannot provide it either, especially if we happen to be the first in our social circle to get pregnant.

Jennifer Coopman

I don't personally know any stay at home moms.  But I have strong opinions on it because it's the subject that caused me to question my feminism years ago. In fact, a couple months ago I had the opportunity to discuss this very issue with some feminists and I thought you guys might enjoy hearing what they said. It sure opened my eyes. I used to feel my personal view on this matter was relatively feminist. Which is that women should not be shamed for choosing career over having kids, nor for being stay at home moms instead of going to college, or anywhere in between. As long as that balance Alexander talks about is there.  As another commenter implied, one parent in the relationship should not have to do everything or be everything to the child. But I believe that, if necessary, a woman should be prepared to sacrifice her own wishes to better raise her children. Also, that there should be 2 adults in the home of a child. Whether hetero-married, gay couple, culture where extended family always lives with you, or whatever, as long as 2 adults are in the home. That makes a mother's sacrifice easier to swallow, and sometimes even unnecessary, so yay! I think it's a shame that in the U.S. it's financially difficult for a family to raise kids on one income. I feel there are lots of exhausted parents, deprived of time with their kids, just because they both have to work in order to afford health insurance, a home, or school tuition, etc. But here are some other perspectives I found interesting that you all might too. Starting with a discussion I had with another feminist where she roasted me pretty good, I must admit. After I expressed some of the above opinions, she said that, due to things like dishwashers and microwaves, an individual woman has plenty of time for the following tasks, and should be expected to: -work full time, plus -be responsible for all the parenting, plus -Be responsible for all the household chores, and -not complain, because it's easy and every mother can do it all herself. I thought to myself, is she betraying a low opinion of men by getting offended that I suggested a working woman needs the father? Or is she mommy-shaming me because I failed at doing it all? Or both? Either way, I thought she was wrong, so I tried to call shenanigans on her and swiftly got my feminist card ripped out of my hand when she said that any woman who says differently has internalized sexism at best, and is a misogynist at worst. Yikes. Remember that video where Alexander talks about women caring more about the opinions of other women? Well, it hurt my little feminist feelings so bad that she thought of me as misogynistic! I thought, ok, maybe I'm the asshole for stating a woman can't/shouldn't do it all. Don't question or judge, just show solidarity, that's feminism 101 right? But I decided to ask 3 working moms that I know to describe their experiences and to find out if I was really as bad a feminist as the first woman said. Here's what they said when I asked them if they wished they could've been a stay at home mom: Working Mom #1: was slightly offended and asked why I thought she should feel that way. I said I don't think that - it was just a question - but there's that feminist backlash Alexander mentioned. Apparently I missed the feminist memo that this subject is now verboten. She eventually admitted it might've been nice to have more time with them, but not at the expense of her job or college degree. She likes working/schooling full time, that's what day care/grammas are for, to watch the kids until they were school age. (She is a single mom, poor even with a full time job and a degree, no support from the father, financially or otherwise, comes from an ethnic culture where pre-colonial tradition is that grandparents actually did ALL the childrearing while young parents hunted/gathered.) Working Mom #2: a hard no. She loves hanging out with kids and hubby together, but detests spending time alone with her kids. On the weekends, if her husband gets called into work,  she is pissed because she can't do anything she wants to do because she has to stay home and watch them (there's that socialization/isolation issue Alexander talked about!) She and the kids had to quarantine 10 days for covid once and by the 2nd day she was stir crazy, begging gramma/auntie to come over and help during the day. She would die without daycare and babysitters.  Loves her job, it's what she went to school for, so it's her passion, that's why no regrets.(Wealthy married mom with a full time job and a degree, and I know that in her extended family her kids are considered the happiest and most well-adjusted kids of the clan.) Working Mom #3: her only goal in life was to be a stay at home mom.  Never wanted to work or go to college, but loved being around kids, and loved her high school sweetheart. When she turned up pregnant at 17, and he agreed to marry her, she was ecstatic! By the summer after her high school graduation she was married with a baby, living in section 8 housing, and she thought it was just the shit!  Until she realized the boy she married was still a teenager as well, and still acting like one. By age 20 she was divorced, worked full time, mother to a 2 yr old and 6 month old, living in the slums.  She hated it! She described being bitter and angry at her ex because she was forced to work and be away from her kids just because he was too irresponsible to keep a job, and she couldn't even get a good job herself because she had foregone college to have kids instead. She said the first few years after divorce were so horrible she was suicidal. (Single mom, poor, no support from the father, financially or otherwise, I suspect it was not a good environment for the kids.)

Jennifer Coopman

Incredible, I just made a 180 from this. I used to relish the idea of a stay at home wife. But I didn't know stay at home career women are the among the most depressed individuals, and no wonder. It's funny it took me this long to change my mind about this, since experienced directly how much better it is for women to have some form of work. My ex was a much better person when she had a job than when she focused on studies only.

Fernando Martinez

I just had a serious "planning for the future" talk with my gf, and it included this topic. So, very timely! You're a friggin wizard Alex. Really good food for thought in this vid.

Blair

great contribution, thanks!

Blair

The point about your mind needing stimulation and having other outlets of self-actualization are absolutely true. My mom had asiprations to study law but my maternal grandfather could not afford an education for all his children. He had two sons (my uncles) and a daughter (my mom) and could only afford to educate two of them and he chose to finance my uncles' education. My mom could not study law as a result of this and got some kind of degree and eventually married my dad and was a SAHM for a while. She got bored soon enough and went out of her way to finish a master of arts degree through a correspondance course and started teaching english at a local schools and has been doing so for the past decade or so. She will retire soon and is talking about shifting to some part time gig.

Ashwin Srinivas

I also grew up in a traditional household. I don't know how my mother did it. Growing up, I never really seen her hang out with much of her friends. There were 1 or 2 that I think she hangs out with often. My mother always took care of my sister and I. After us kids were in our teenage years.....she went out into the workforce and did some jobs just to keep her occupied. Even with her job, she still kept an eye on us kids. Making sure our homework were done and that we were well fed. My dad worked hard and brought the money home. I think she took joy and pride in cooking meals for the family. Never heard mom complain once. I know she hated my guts from time to time though lol. I was a little poop and made her life hard.

I was raised by a working dad and stay at home mom who home schooled us all the way. My mom always said that being a stay at home mom was fulfilling for her, but since my family is religious, she did get social interaction at church. She also got to use her skills once a week as the administrator for the youth program at our church, which I know also helped her feel fulfilled. When she quit that and my siblings and I started doing more schooling on our own with satellite (back in the day lol), I remember her getting restless a lot and bored, which created tension with my dad. But now my dad's retired and things are better. Just thought I'd add this as it is very similar to what you're saying works and what's needed.

I really liked this video. I've had the thought that the ideal condition I'd want in a relationship was for my partner to have a job that would be flexible enough to have kids and still enjoy her craft. And the perspective given here really helps highlight the nuances that I never knew existed!

Ali Nassar

Totally agree with everything said here. The most common scenario I’ve seen with SAHMs is resentment against their husbands demonstrated in two key ways: 1. Explicitly minimizing/diminishing the husband in the family, his manhood, and his role as a father. I.e. she is home with the kids all the time so he gets no say on how to parent, how the household runs, etc. These guys often become the “yes, dear...” kind of men - until they get divorced. 2. Similar to the above, but where the woman is not so controlling or overtly directive in the relationship but rather just galavants off doing her own thing with the kids - spending his hard earned money and limiting the time he has with them. - until she divorces him. The only successful modern relationships I’ve seen with stay at home moms have been: 1. families with a LOT of kids. Talking 5+ kids. Usually these women have help from friends and family so it helps with the socializing aspect and there is just so much to do. Plus, they tend to be religious- so more traditional to start. 2. When the women are very active with other things, eg being a Girl Scouts troop leader, PTA, garden club, etc. Again, gets the socialization aspect with adults and helps keeps their minds stimulated. In addition to everything Alex said, I’d also add the underlying fear of the future. Women crave security- what that looks like to them can vary somewhat but asking a woman to be a SAHM is asking her to be completely dependent on you and to take a huge risk that, if anything happened to you in the future, she could be left with no money and no skills to support her and her family. And history has taught us women - that that risk is NOT negligible.

Great point I would even expand on that and say that it is almost crucial that an individual has more than one meaning in thier lives. If they have only one meaning (they put all their time into their in to one area) and that one thing suddenly doesn't go well of even disappears they are left feeling empty. A balanced and robust life is one filled with many purposes so that if one fades you can just transition your focus instead of having nothing.

Tomer Shamay

I don't have children yet but this is exactly the fears I would have but it is nice to have a man validate them. I think people need meaning in their life and meaning doesn't have to be from one thing (one career or raising children). Sometimes people just want a bit of variety and excitement in their lives and that doesn't mean they don't love their children. Part-time work is definitely the way to go or at least a proper hobby that takes up time xxx

Alisha