Game Design - Cost vs Rewards
Added 2017-01-23 08:39:17 +0000 UTCSo v0.3.1 is almost ready for it's public release, just two more days to go. Once that's done, it's full steam ahead on v0.4, which is the UI and Gameplay update. That means it's time to do one of my favorite nerdy things: Game Design!
So, what are we looking at today? The dynamics between the Cost of something, and the Reward it gives you (Which I shall capitalize, for empahsis throughout this post). Every good game needs a trade off to make it interesting. In Mario the Cost is all the power ups you use to beat a level, the Reward is the progress you make towards rescuing the princess. In Dark Souls, the Cost are the souls you lose when you die (a lot), the Reward is the unique soul of the boss and progress in the game.
Given that Lab Rats is a porn game, the Reward is pretty straight forward. Unlock a new scene, make a girl a little sluttier, so on and so forth. Easy.
The Cost is trickier, and if you do it wrong can really screw up a good game. One common mistake is to treat the players time like the Cost. If event A gives you 2 points, and event B gives you 4, obviously event B should take twice as much time to reach. Except that by default, that sucks. There's no interesting choice to make. All of the players time should be interesting in a good game, you shouldn't have to suffer through bad parts to get to the good. This rule holds no matter how you try and phrase it. If you have to spend gold on an item, but gold is obtained by spending time on a simple mini-game, then that item really just requires you to be bored for a while. This is fundamentally why grinding in video games sucks.
So what does this mean for Lab Rats? Well, at every turn I have to make sure that the Cost for reaching a new scene isn't just your time. The current state of the serums highlight's the problem. The "best" way to play is to cycle through a ton of days, earn a bunch of money, then make as many red serums as you can.
That's going to have to be changed in v0.4, because it just isn't fun right now. Perhaps red serums will be made to have a finite limit, and the supplies have to be found through exploration. Giving the player a way to influence their income beyond just showing up for work is also going to be important. Finally, by adding more content in the game length of 120 days will come into play. That turns an out of game cost ("My ten minutes") into an important in game cost ("Two weeks closer to the end.").
What are some events that you think are repedative, with no Cost other than your time, and where do you feel like you're paying some sort of Cost for no Reward?
tl;dr - Grinding sucks, so I'm going to try and make sure Lab Rats is stripped of any meaningless repedative tasks, and replace them with meaningful choices.
Comments
Personally I feel like the resistance decay rate is way too high. I hate having to choose between pushing one of the women with another dose of whatever I have on hand knowing that it will push their resistance way high, or skipping out on it and hoping it pops back up in a few days when their resistance is lower. It feels bad to know you're skipping on a story scene for a game mechanic.
2017-03-20 01:43:34 +0000 UTCLets see, there are about twenty major scenes in the game, each with an average of five different options. Then there are 25 or so minor scenes, with an average of three different levels worth looking at. Total there would be somewhere around 150 notable things to find. I'll look into putting together a list for my patrons, it would certainly be an interesting scavenger hunt!
Vren
2017-01-25 05:44:10 +0000 UTCI also want to add that I would like to include some kind of XXX in-game checklist or walkthrough so that I know that I've seen every sex and or ending. It makes us completionist very happy :D
Alexandar04
2017-01-24 07:18:28 +0000 UTCI'm new but I agree with them both. Right now it is just quickly get red and do it because blue and purple, put bluntly, feel worthless. If events are repeatable it means people will use them more often. Though I do agree there should be some supicious time inbetween. Plus the random events are too infrequent.
Bob Bryan
2017-01-24 04:09:27 +0000 UTCDefinitely the action scenes should have a greater occurrence probability. I had to play the game completely twice to finally trigger the daughter serum night scene. I mean I could keep loading my save game until I trigger it, but I shouldn't have to.....Also, I'm not quite sold on a finite amount of days, maybe if you want to show a bonus ending scene yes, but the player should have the option to keep going....increasing influence and maybe adding new higher level influence scenes in the future (back door?), this will also keep your user base coming back for more....even in Super Mario you can go back and play any level you want after you finish the game.
2017-01-23 21:43:13 +0000 UTCThe art and every thing is great, but I can repeat it or fully experience it at my own pace, I got race make not of all the events basically I got play it like 4 times to get all the fun stuff right in one go. I kind of expected with a setup it had with the day cycle doing what I want I could use like 100 days with some not all some like dosing the coffee events to enjoy it, not need to race to the best stuff. I mean like others pointed out the blues are worthless minus triggering the events you feel more compelled to skip over them and use only the min of non reds. It becomes more of chore. I am following this page hoping to see something more come of it, I like this direction though the realization that this is kind of grindy and a rat race now. I can handle grindy as long as I could take my own pace, but if I want experience it all I got work my butt off and use every event to the fullest.
Zal
2017-01-23 15:14:18 +0000 UTCTo me its about time killing, I can spend 4 hours on silly game, this kind of game if it kills a few hours its great thing. I am adult all I got is time to kill. Main reason I never supported this is once I sorted out I could repeat things it did become a grind fest, I got work my butt off now instead take easy going pace and enjoy it. I got make them red serums so every event to dose them is used to the fullest. Went from "this is pretty neat," to "hey I been waiting 3 days for this event to trigger, oh crap they are not repeatable, I wish I did something better with the ones I used up." In Mario you can actually repeat levels or maybe it was just the newer ones but I remember Mario 3 being big one I played and you could move around the map and hand pick your path and go back and repeat things.
Zal
2017-01-23 15:08:06 +0000 UTCAwesome game, awesome post. Just found the game recently and couldn't be happier. Keep up the great work.
Minkyaman
2017-01-23 14:02:14 +0000 UTCReds, Blues and purples should all equal up to the 15 red system limit of 5 of each red and blue unlimited effect of blue blue =1 red=2 purple=3 what do you think also a few repeatable quest
2017-01-23 12:18:44 +0000 UTCAs a... non 18+ game developer, this post was really valuable to me. Thank you.
Rayhaku808
2017-01-23 12:14:47 +0000 UTCIt is frustrating not knowing when to stop talking to a person when it goes nowhere. The grind is wasting time on an event when it is the same event. Maybe a pop up saying there is no need to talk to her right now until I can get more serum. The Doc can be convinced to hire you full time. Serums can be toned down and events more subtle. A kiss , then a grope. Mom coming to sleep like sis did but no sex. I think some people want sex right away. I love the game!!!!. I hate putting my finger on the skip button when I could be doing something else lol.
Justanx
2017-01-23 12:13:54 +0000 UTClike 10 blue = 1 purple
ERODRAW
2017-01-23 10:23:45 +0000 UTCOr maybe a way to convert blue syrum into purple/red, (not at the beginning, but maybe unlock with an event, and a new "research" find on the internet)
ERODRAW
2017-01-23 10:23:27 +0000 UTCIn it's current implementation, blue syrum has no use. It's only purpose is to trigger the Lab Boss(cant remember her name) one time scene, and for new people to make before they realize that red syrums are the way to go. A different way to go about this would be to do away with the red and purple drank so that blue(or whatever color you want) is only available, and change it so that syrum is used to break through resistances. Example: after using a syrum, the mom now thinks it's okay to kiss her son. Doing so will increase influence because it's "exciting". After a while it becomes an everyday thing and stops awarding points, while doing anything further just makes her angry. So, you use another syrum to break her down more to open up groping, different clothes etc.
2017-01-23 09:43:13 +0000 UTCOkay I love you :p I mean, I don't know a lot of 18 games that care of the gameplay, I wanna make one (I'm a developer c# Unity) but never had the courage x) GL & HF! However if there is 120 days (17-18 weeks) maybe you should increase the probability of scenes that have a random chance to happen. And as you said maybe random serum, or reduce the cost, on every "test", I've spent far more than 20 weeks :s (maybe because I'm not skilled haha)
ERODRAW
2017-01-23 09:14:39 +0000 UTC
