Did Podcasters Make Trump President? (w/ Andrew Marantz)
Added 2025-05-15 10:58:50 +0000 UTCAmong the many factors credited for Donald Trump's victory over Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential race was one that, naturally, the hosts of Know Your Enemy took an interest in: podcasts. More specifically, "bro" podcasts—think Joe Rogan or Theo Von—seemed to be one reason why Trump continued, as he did in 2016 and 2020, to perform so well with male voters, especially gaining ground with younger, Black, and Latino men. An episode of one of these podcasts might stretch to three hours long or more, and typically features meandering, casual conversations that put a premium on apparent authenticity, as well as a knack for hanging with the boys. Trump and other Republican candidates and figures on the right (such as Elon Musk, a regular on Rogan's show) made appearing on these podcasts part of their campaign strategy, which allowed them to reach men who tend not to "follow politics" or even vote in every election.
To try to understand what's happening with bros, podcasts, Trump, and beyond, there was no better guest than New Yorker staff writer Andrew Marantz, author of an early—and quite perceptive—piece on KYE and, more importantly for this conversation, a recent investigation into the world of bro podcasts and streamers, and what they might mean for both the left and the right at the start of Trump's second term.
Sources:
Andrew Marantz, "The Battle for the Bros," The New Yorker, Mar 17, 2025
— "Is the U.S. Becoming and Autocracy," The New Yorker, April 28, 2025
-- "Why We Can’t Stop Arguing About Whether Trump Is a Fascist," The New Yorker, March 27, 2024
— "The Post-Dirtbag Left," The New Yorker, July 26, 2021
Jonathan Allen & Amie Parnes, "The inside story of Harris' lost gamble on Joe Rogan, Beyoncé and a late Texas rally," NBC News, Jan 29, 2025
Jack Crosbie, "Hasan Piker: A Progressive Mind in a MAGA Body," New York Times, April 27, 2025
...and don't forget to subscribe to Know Your Enemy on Patreon for access to all of our bonus episodes!
Comments
Chapo and their righteous anger are the reason I’m a leftist at all. I was a well meeting but uninformed and ignorant liberal around the 2016 election and their Twitter presence and the Twitter presence of those similar to them essentially shamed me into moving leftward. And I’m very grateful for that.
Tim Combes
2025-05-23 19:34:52 +0000 UTCWe’ve thought about alternatives, but seems like too big a pain to move. Can I ask, do you have the RSS link imported into your chosen podcast app? I know the setup has some friction, but after that, it’s pretty seamless, no? - Sam
Know Your Enemy
2025-05-21 22:10:22 +0000 UTCHey Matt & Sam, I absolutely love your content. It is the absolute highlight of my podcast feed. I am a relatively new Patreon subscriber but honestly I have to say that the means of engaging & interacting with the Patreon feed is, other than supplying access to your bonus episodes, a strictly worse experience. I hope you are considering alternative means of encouraging subscribers, because I honestly feel like accessing KYE via Patreon is kind of hostile to the listener. Look at, for example, the relatively seamless experience for the listener of subscribing to Cooler Zone Media, which is without doubt the best value for money that I spend within the podcast ecosystem. I would happily spend as much as I do on CZM only on KYE, I just wish that the resulting experience of engaging with your content was easier. Whatever you end up doing, your show is my absolute favourite within the podcast ecosystem. Please continue with the incredible content, I love everything you do. Much love, Juno
jvno
2025-05-21 22:01:53 +0000 UTCHave this guy on your show: The Indie Rock To Fascism Pipeline, by Evan McClaren AKA leader of the tiki torch march in Charlottesville https://substack.com/home/post/p-163620736
Andrew Mongolloyd Webber
2025-05-19 15:13:14 +0000 UTCPlease don't give us National Security advisor Felix Biederman unless you want the entirety of the pentagon budget spent on fighter jets.
Robert Mullins
2025-05-19 00:04:23 +0000 UTC(Sorry in advance for long comment, old “pleasure-to-have-in-class” habits die hard… ) As a longtime both KYE and Chapo listener/enjoyer (you can be both, folks!) who respectfully does sometimes wish KYE had a bit more teeth with regard to centrist dems and their neoliberal institutions, I felt challenged in a great way by this fantastic episode. The point made about the “additive” vs “subtractive” nature of these populist movements on the left vs the right has made me begin to reconsider some of my priors about ways to rhetorically orient toward people within the Dem party. I think it’s a tricky problem to solve: who should we consider the “Enemy” here? Who is it tactically useful to oppose for the sake of achieving social democracy? Viscerally, I feel that the Enemy is not only the William Buckley’s, Frank Meyer’s, and Nate Hochman’s but also the Chuck Schumers, the Hakeem Jeffries’s, the Cory Bookers, the Pod Save guys, and yes the Biden/Harris’s who are fine with cutting social welfare programs to retain power, oppose Medicare for All, support/allow one of the most heinous targeted mass destruction of life in human history, and tried to hide Biden’s cognitive decline when it was painfully obvious on live television… But! What does it mean to explicitly oppose those things and potentially those people while still creating an “additive” coalition-building politics? I don’t know, but my hunch even after this episode is the answer is Lean In to the populism, not play civil and try to Reform. Trump activated a large enough non-voting block that he could overpower the party establishment and that’s how his populism conquered his party. Let’s not forget the left actually came Very Close to that in 2016 too! We were extremely close to having a socialist Dem candidate for president of the United States! As discussed, many of Bronx voters this past election voted for both Trump and AOC! We should not throw in the towel early around having a more populist, shoot-from-the-hip, class-based, rightfully angry political register (not talking about liberal idpol scolding). Working class people are ANGRY, and there was (and still sort of is?) a movement that spoke to that. I think Josh Citarella and Hasan and yes Chapo are still carrying that torch. Often KYE too! (& Josh Cit really provides the newness/forward-thinking/heterodox views Andrew described missing from Chapo and Hasan imo…) Last and obvious point is one of the strengths of the more considered/studied vibe of podcast that KYE has is that the history of the right and political/psycho-analytic philosophy & theory that it introduces its listeners to can actually provide a deeper ideological grounding for a revolutionary politics. So I just want to shout that out as an important caveat to everything I just said — it’s my favorite thing about this great podcast, it’s something the dirtbag pods don’t provide, and it’s why I’ll keep listening with a lot of enjoyment and appreciation for all of Sam & Matt’s deep care for leftist politics and their hard work. 🫡🫶🏼🇵🇸 🙏🏼 :)
Maurice Marion
2025-05-18 19:26:39 +0000 UTCAs Biden would say, “C’mon, man…”
Know Your Enemy
2025-05-17 00:39:31 +0000 UTCI really liked this episode! I think a Rogan of the left is probably a good thing to want and is worth thinking about. I’m optimistic that good rhetoric can change people’s minds I slightly disagree with Andrew’s characterization of orthogonal axes of “left-right” and “crass-polite” (to badly paraphrase) - i agree that they’re too broadly conflated in a pearl-clutchy way, but I think they’re a little more entwined than he describes For example, the phrase “clutching pearls” itself is sexist and (I would say) conservative. I think it’s possible to both divorce the style from the substance, and be clear eyed that you can’t completely. Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but imo it’s about making peace with a small amount of conservatism, rather than pretending it’s not there
Anthony Gabriele
2025-05-16 19:28:36 +0000 UTCI didn’t appreciate the swipe at Biden. There have been many accounts, and they still come in, of him remaining sharp and on his feet through long days including international travel. “Unable to do anything for three hours except sleep” was low and uncalled for. You guys don’t need to be joining in the media circle-jerk over Jake Tapper’s book.
Edward Hutchinson
2025-05-16 18:03:13 +0000 UTCInteresting podcast but I wondered about the whole bro thing. Did it really help elect anyone? The podcast didn’t seem to answer that question. I wondered if a lot of listeners to these dumb podcasters like Rogan and Vonn even vote? Seems odd that to like these folks and their dumb followers would inspire political engagement other than just talk. I suspect they would vote for Trump if the voted but I wondered.
Sierra
2025-05-16 15:04:45 +0000 UTC
