A Working Class GOP? (w/ Aaron Sibarium)
Added 2020-12-06 03:30:58 +0000 UTCWe're joined by new conservative-ish frenemy of the pod, Aaron Sibarium — a bright, young, bushy-tailed editor at the Washington Free Beacon — for a post-election discussion of everyone's favorite fun topic, realignment (or lack there of)! Together we discuss the prospects for a "multi-racial working class" majority in either party; our thoughts about "wokeness" and bureaucracy; defunding the police; the GOP's union problem; and the top-down populism of the Vermeule-Deneen-Ahmari set.
For those of you who enjoy a good faith discussion across ideological difference, this one is for you. (For those of you who don't, well, we can't win em all!)
Further Reading
Aaron Sibarium, "The Limits of the Realignment," American Compass, Nov 23, 2020.
Aaron Sibarium, "Michael Lind on Reviving Democracy," The American Interest, Jan 29, 2020.
Jay Caspian Kang, "‘People of Color’ Do Not Belong to the Democratic Party" New York Times, Nov 20, 2020.
Comments
It is quite depressing how many people, including your guest, have a negative reaction to wokeness, a very marginal issue, as the basis of their politics. I also found Aaron’s social conservatism interesting though I would love for Someone to go at the core premise. Why should our politics be about promoting married couples raising kids? Why is social conservatism a good thing? I have a hard time agreeing with either as a basis for politics.
Leo Martin
2021-01-01 16:09:18 +0000 UTCAaron should read Stuart Hall’s Policing the Crisis
Marc Schneider
2020-12-19 01:53:31 +0000 UTCGreat episode. Agree with Sam that the woke/PC/culture war stuff comes from a position of weakness - applying an identity-based postmodern/neoliberal framework as far as it can go to problems of money and power with increasingly diminishing returns. Perhaps it’s the only political expression people born after the 1970s is familiar with? Institutions love it because it has the facade of doing something, even doing something radical, without changing much. Though the fact that it’s emerging as the most effective recruiting tool for the right is troubling.
bene
2020-12-16 21:23:44 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed this one. Would have loved more discussion following the pivotal moment after sam’s comment about his socialist commitments and the so called populism of the right. Aaron’s response was right on in the sense that for folks on the right what sam is calling top down imposition and distribution of goods is seen as a community putting the common good ahead of the individual good. I was hoping for a more robust response from sam on how a left vision of communitarianism/anti individualism differs from what Aaron described. Is it purely the role the state ought to play? What would that actually look like? How is a left project like the green new deal not in some sense an imposition of a certain vision of the good? Thanks for a good conversation, would love to be able to share if this ever comes in front of the paywall.
Benedict Wright
2020-12-08 00:42:06 +0000 UTCGreat Episode! I actually really like the way you guys talked about wokeness, and thought you handled really well the necessary vagueness of what that term means here.
Killer300
2020-12-08 00:13:06 +0000 UTCLong comment incoming: Agreed with (most of) the commenters that this guest was very good and this topic was one I've been itching for. I too find the "working-class, social conservative GOP" rhetoric to be more wish than reality, and while the left has frequently worried that the GOP will actually deliver on economic populism and undercut true liberationist politics, I simply don’t think they’re going to, for the reasons you outlined. What I really felt was underplayed here was gender. Unless new data has come out I don’t know about, the increased Trump vote among POC is not only predominantly educated but predominantly male. What analysis I’ve seen of this has been shallow, and maybe we just don’t know enough yet. Call this identity politics if you like, but I really think gender is so much more important here than we’re able to acknowledge. Talking about how social conservative aims wrt traditional gender roles interact with conservatism's internal fights is a difficult conversation, and I know Sam was getting at it in his rant, but I think you've done it more directly before (e.g. in the Will Arbery ep), and that's always really welcome, at least to me.
Hannah
2020-12-07 23:25:18 +0000 UTCGod this kid is insufferable.
ABCD1234
2020-12-07 20:17:57 +0000 UTCThe wokeness discussion reminds me of this Eric Hoffer quote: “It has often been said that power corrupts. But it is perhaps equally important to realize that weakness, too, corrupts. Power corrupts the few, while weakness corrupts the many. Hatred, malice, rudeness, intolerance, and suspicion are the faults of weakness. The resentment of the weak does not spring from any injustice done to them but from their sense of inadequacy and impotence. We cannot win the weak by sharing our wealth with them. They feel our generosity as oppression.” Hoffer was a blue-collar worker all his life but did not feel really himself to be one of them. He was certainly not a socialist though he was a member of a labor union. A fascinating figure you guys might want to look into!
Mark K
2020-12-07 18:14:26 +0000 UTCI feel like this conversation could be used as an example in a social skills class, to be dissected. The benefit of the doubt was given to everyone in the conversation. I'm not saying I did not cringe a little, but I appreciated the hosts' gracious responses. Some great "Emotional Intelligence" going on here.
Sam Murphy
2020-12-07 14:48:31 +0000 UTCThis was a great episode — you should bring on more enemies/frenemies! I love these episodes that engage with heterodox conservatives like Ross and Aaron.
dyke madigan
2020-12-06 23:44:19 +0000 UTCI really loved this. Always good to be reminded that there can be productive conversations between left and right. Hope it makes its way to the free feed at some point -- I'd like to share it.
JW
2020-12-06 21:22:47 +0000 UTCThis was a great episode.
Mary McComb Op
2020-12-06 21:05:58 +0000 UTCThey all drive me crazy, tbh, and can't really recommend any. But I often listen to the The American Conservative pod for a dose of paleocon; Claremont's American Mind pod for west coast Straussian Trumper bs; Charlie Sykes's Bulwark pod for the "burn it down" Never Trump psychodrama; and Jonah Goldberg's "the remnant" pod, mostly bc i have a soft spot for him and appreciate the deep pathos of his pitiful, lucy-and-the-football conviction that the modern GOP is still somehow salvageable. -- Sam
Know Your Enemy
2020-12-06 17:26:28 +0000 UTCYes, he is an enemy lol
Jonathan
2020-12-06 15:07:40 +0000 UTCGood episode so far, y'all should really do an episode on black conservatism vis-a-vis rap/prosperity gospel/entrepreneurship etc. Republican Jay-Z far more likely to cause realignment than populist republican #123123.
David Turner
2020-12-06 13:38:10 +0000 UTChey sam and matt- do you have a working list of conservative podcasts that are worth listening to?
jason
2020-12-06 05:15:21 +0000 UTCThis was so enlightening and careful
Ashleen Bagnulo
2020-12-06 05:05:56 +0000 UTC
