Attachment System Brainstorming
Added 2023-10-15 14:15:11 +0000 UTCHi!
I'm doing some attachments system brainstorming today and since I have this unique situation to rethink some of the implementations, I thought that I would also ask your opinion on this.
The previous attachment system in Unity was based on this weapon inspection within the game view and you had a possibility to swap attachments with number keys.
I will use the same approach to different attachment slots (technically), so there's going to be slots for suppressors, optics and ammo. In the future, I will offer more slots (like stocks and grips) but those are the starting point.
But when it comes to this implementation, I think the Unity version had few limitations like you could only swap the attachment, but not manually select the preferred one. This is one thing that I will do different this time, but there's multiple other reconsiderations as well.
Here's some of the main ones:
- Is the Crysis-like inspection too "arcade" for a hardcore game?
- If you could just drag and drop attachments manually within UI to weapon icon (which updates visually when you drop those), could the inspection be just a visual cool weapon check, so all attachment handling would be done within main UI (like in DayZ)?
Let me know your thoughts about this topic.
I'm sure that there's wide range of opinions on this, so consider this just casual sunday brainstorming, since I'm not making any final decisions yet, just changing ideas :)
- Antti (Developer)
Comments
If supporting both isn't too much work, I'd go for both: the "arcade" one for show (people really seemd to like it) and the other one for the more pragmatic crowd.
Alex der Schreckliche
2023-10-16 19:49:53 +0000 UTCWell thought out, I like the sound of this system.
Sam Hardwater
2023-10-16 14:35:20 +0000 UTCI like Tarkov's system, but that doesn't mean I won't like a Crysis-like system. The main thing I didn't like about the Demo 1 implementation is that it wasn't mouse driven. I would have preferred to lose my look control and be able to click through slots than use the keyboard for each slot.
Kavan Wright
2023-10-16 12:50:52 +0000 UTCI'm a function first kind of guy, as long as it's not too unimmersive. The menu based option sounds good to me, as it gives more flexibility. I've always thought the weapon inspection thing was a bit gamey but I do see a reason to inspect to see what attachments you have on the gun. Metro let you inspect, right? I did like how that game did everything.
J. B.
2023-10-15 22:45:18 +0000 UTCI like inspecting to see what I currently have attached to the gun at a glance. The number system to attach was cool, but I had to think about what I was clicking rather than easy swap and go for things like silencers. I liked being able to adjust optics with the mouse wheel. As far as attaching, I prefer to drag and drop the attachments to slots in the menu UI.
Kevin Kirkbride
2023-10-15 21:49:41 +0000 UTCI prefer the drag and drop solution, more intuitive for me and it mean less button to press. The weapon inspection could be used to check the durability, ammo type and minor informations
Shamnolya
2023-10-15 18:42:51 +0000 UTCI liked the inspection system - it really adds to the immersion. Are there specific rules a game must follow to be considered 'hardcore' and 'not arcade'? If so, I don't think the way how your in-game gear is managed is one of them... For me 'hardcore' is about the game mechanics and the way how they force me to train myself and improvise in difficult situations. A weapon inspection system is a cool visual addition to the main core of the game but for me it does not define it.
FiveFingerSlapFace
2023-10-15 16:34:20 +0000 UTCI think another option would be an in between system of inventory vs live inspection modding. Much like a workbench system in the Last of Us or the fallout games, or modding from a backpack like in Metro Exodus.
Daniel Thoelke
2023-10-15 16:21:37 +0000 UTCI much prefer the gun inspect method of adding attachments, especially since I expect I'll already be spending a fair amount of time in menus for looting and trading. I find it fairly easy to handwave some gameplay magic if it keeps me in the world, and for me having a "physical" object that I'm manipulating feels more realistic than drag-and-drop in the inventory screen. If it's too arcadey to just have the attachments appear when selected, you could perhaps show a hologram of the ones you selected, drop the gun out of view when you confirm your changes, and bring it back up a few seconds later with the new setup.
t3hsquirr3l
2023-10-15 15:54:36 +0000 UTCoooh i like the mouse wheel idea
Dani
2023-10-15 15:53:44 +0000 UTCAgreed.
BluFalconActual
2023-10-15 15:51:11 +0000 UTCI thought the inspection system was fine. If you keep it that way maybe you can make it so you hold the number key of the slot you want to change then use scroll wheel to pick what exact item will go there, then release key to confirm. I think drag and drop in inventory is fine maybe in base but when you're out exploring it feels more intimate to stay away from the inventory screen.
Tim S
2023-10-15 15:47:46 +0000 UTCThis right here. Pretty much on par with what I was thinking.
Skidjit
2023-10-15 15:30:42 +0000 UTCI personally like the weapon inspection "crysis" configuration for this game. Bringing the weapon up to inspect the current set up is very immersive and that is a net positive for this type of game, because when all is said and done this game should be as immersive as possible and you should use all tools necessary to achieve said immersion. On the other hand, drag and drop attachments is a method that works well in many other hardcore shooters. What if you tried to incorporate both mechanics in a functional way that would be both immersive and different from what other games offer. Let's say you have the weapon inspection, like you originally had on unity, but instead of pressing the assigned number and an attachment appears over time, you could press the number assigned to a weapon slot which would then open a small window that shows all available attachments for the current weapon for that specific slot. You could then select the attachment you want, which would close the small attachment window and your character would remove the current attachment if available and place the selected attachment on. Each attachment would have it's specific amount of time to either remove or add to the weapon. So say you have an acog on your weapon and you want to replace it with a red dot optic. You would press the assigned number for that slot, select the red dot optic you want from the small attachment window, your character would then take the specified time (specific to the acog) to remove the acog, and then your character would take the specified time (specific to the red dot optic) to add the optic to the weapon. At first you could have no animations like in the original demo, and then add some simple rudimentary animations much later down the road. You could base attachment times to how the attachment functions irl. So lets use optics as the scenario again. Some optics require an alan key to attach it the weapon, some use a simple lever to attach. So theoretically the optic that uses and alan key would take longer to attach or remove than an optic that uses a quick lever connection.
M1XED_BAG
2023-10-15 15:09:35 +0000 UTCGood catch, I never really thought about how many modes of interactions there actually are. Maybe I can show it better by making „user stories“: I want to be able to drag and drop an item on my gun in the inventory real quick and the game figures out if and where it can fit on my gun. I think this would be mode 3 in your list. And also, I want to see all the modifiable slots at the same time and then pick for each slot what I want quickly and conveniently. I mean what‘s stopping you from putting a Tarkov weapon modding style into the first person quick change thing. Uncapturing the mouse for that interaction seems not such a big deal because you aren’t really aiming in that situation. So here is a possible scenario: 1. You hit the mod weapon key while in first person 2. Your mouse cursor shows up and you can no longer aim 3. The weapon viewmodel goes into inspect mode (like now). This inspect mode has the same functionalities as the weapon modding view from Tarkov 4. You interact with the system like in Tarkov (select slots and then select what item to equip on what slot) 5a. You confirm by pressing a button with the mouse or hotkey and the weapon gets modified with more or less sophisticated animations (Tarkov does this well enough imo) 5b. You press escape or a cancel button and the changes are discarded This would be my personal favorite way (unless testing shows me this sucks) for the quick first person interaction mode. In the menus you said it already you can do whatever you want since it is not really time critical.
Nubb3r
2023-10-15 15:07:55 +0000 UTCI mean, both ideas are good. I like the drag and drop option because it's more interactive, you have to take away your vision from the danger, look for your attachment through your inventory, and put it in your weapon. Apart from the fact that we can't choose the attachment and we're forced to circle through them, your first version was a bit artificial, it was pressing a button, and the game itself put the attachment, without much interaction with us. But at the same time, we're doing it almost without much assistance from the UI, we are put in an attachment in real time, on the go. It has that bit of immersion needed. I like both, and I'm not sure which one is more hardcore gamer haha but a mix between, where you inspect the weapon, and a little inventory windows pop-ups at the side, where you can drag and drop, could be a fun solution
Dario Gonzalez
2023-10-15 14:48:26 +0000 UTCI don't know how possible it would be, just as a brain storming idea. What if a style like Tarkov, where you install the attachments in the inventory. Then when you equip that weapon. It bring out the base weapon, and attaches them as animations in your hands. Adding time and opportunity for the enemies to surprise you. I think just a Tarkov style would be good and achievable. If you want something a bit different and new in the fps genre. Of course I have no idea how difficult that would be to make. I think it would be awesome to see something like that.
Tony Foster
2023-10-15 14:40:07 +0000 UTCI think the best "safe to use" solution would be a drag and drop system in the inventory. If I had to break down the feedback outside of Patreon, it would be that the old system was too cumbersome. Many didn't understand it at all, found it too tedious to switch through everything until you get to the right attachment (of course you could solve that with a dropdown) or just found the usual system better. Personally, I found the old system not bad. With a faster solution to get to the desired attachment it would also fit from the speed when you have 4-5 scopes. But I think that on the long run an inventory drag&drop system makes more sense, you could also mark compatible and incompatible attachments much better by simply turning the background of the weapon green or red when hovering over it with the attachment. In the end, however, it remains to say that your ideas and your gameplay should determine how the game plays.
SavRoyale
2023-10-15 14:38:10 +0000 UTCI think the "magic" swap of attachments is little too arcade but I really like the picture and idea of holding the gun while looking at it and switching the attachment from such "menu"...so maybe something like choosing the attachments from how it was (holding the gun) and then there'd be some kind of animation in which the "switch" would happen...Or I also remembered the backpack animation from Metro exodus maybe just as an inspiration...and last thing I also guess it wouldn't be bad to later have some inventory-like way of switching as well...in future ofc...so there's more way to change the attachments...
Feruen
2023-10-15 14:26:44 +0000 UTCIn my understanding technically you have two different attachment system options in EFT. There's the cool separate modding 3D view and then you can also drop attachments directly to the weapon icons within the main inventory UI? (Correct me if I'm wrong) EDIT: Actually I think there 3 different ways of handling attachments in EFT. One is that modding view, second is that weapon "inspect window" with the stats and the third is that drag and drop method within you inventory grid. The difference between this game and EFT is that in EFT you are often going to "lobby" and you have this peaceful menu moment, so you can fiddle around the UI's as much as you like since you're not inside a raid. In Road to Vostok, I would like minimize the time of being in these UI's and provide options as fast as possible since there's going to be those permadeath elements etc. But those complex UI's could still be a possibility when you are within your shelter and that could be your "calmful menu moment" like in EFT, but then should there be two systems for attachments, the complex shelter one and more streamlined and fast "raid one"?
Road to Vostok
2023-10-15 14:25:15 +0000 UTCOh man I'd love something like Crysis. At some point you have to balance game play with realism/hard-core. In my opinion, a UI shouldn't get in the way of the experience and if it is as complicated as one certain game set in Tarkov, it becomes tedious. Sure, it's cool to drag and drop and change where attachments go, but after the 500th time doing it, it gets boring. I don't like the DayZ like attachment system, I did like yours in Unity, but if it went to a Crysis like system, it could feel even better without making it a mouse clicking minigame. I feel an immersive, hard-core game means having as few clicks as possible to get things set the way you want them set.
Skilletfan93
2023-10-15 14:23:39 +0000 UTCI like the idea of having a tarkovish system in the main UI. But do something similar to battlefield 2042 for actual FPV game play of swapping attachments. May also help with controller support in the future as that is probably not on the road map right now.
TestQuestions
2023-10-15 14:22:04 +0000 UTCI think doing the attachments in the inventory sounds like a solid option, maybe a submenu with slots and the silouette of the gun? If that were the case inspection animation sounds like a nice addition too :) Maybe manually rotating the gun with a mouse while holding the inspection key?
tomi
2023-10-15 14:20:09 +0000 UTCI‘m not familiar with either Crysis or DayZ. I only have Tarkov as a reference. Wouldn’t that kind of system be good? Just a hierarchical slot system and for each possible slot (that you currently own suitable items for) you select from a drop down menu.
Nubb3r
2023-10-15 14:18:52 +0000 UTC
