586 - Christmas in Heaven feat. Danny Bessner (12/20/21)

Was really hoping Chris would have edited in the perfect sound byte from TMNT II in this one. https://giphy.com/clips/cameronpaulsmith-babies-tmnt-ninja-turtles-OfRf5AHjj97VD5sOVP

Karl

Cool! I appreciate that man, I'll download it for personal use. But I want to send the episode to friends who don't listen to Chapo and downloading videos doesn't seem to be an option with this app. Telling them to also download an app to listen to it is no bueno. But I am glad I know about this app now so I can't stop watching ads.

Cody Turner

https://vancedapp.com/ you're welcome comrade

Thank you, I didn't know that! Although listening to a podcast on YT is a chore if you're on mobile.

Cody Turner

dog, it's an even ep, they have it on the yt

chris dray

Can y'all please unlock this episode? I want to send this episode to everyone I know

Cody Turner

This is a really interesting question imo. Alright, so, coronavirus is first detected end of June, early July, then starts becoming a pandemic 3 months later in October 2019. First wave hits higher numbers over winter into 2020, meaning more deaths and more hospitals get closer to outright collapse. Lockdowns over Thanksgiving and Christmas piss off way more people and lead to disillusionment even sooner. I guess it's then about if Trump gets coronavirus earlier then. I think if it spreads like wildfire over winter and people are already sick of lockdowns and are breaking them by then then he'll have a high chance of getting it a couple months before he would have, even taking into account the 6-month delay. Does the cocktail of drugs and adrenochrome to save him exist at that point? I'm not sure and can't be bothered to google it. I guess we'll assume he still gets it and still survives. I think the chapos made a great point when they said that Trump's base only really has one point of contention that they could actually break with him with, that being vaccines. But I don't think that effect is enough to meaningfully deter the hordes of old people and used car salesmen with nothing better to do than vote. I think what happens is that Trump does what he's doing now: he brags about how he made the vaccine happen, but then adds a bunch of fluff about how "it's your choice to vaccinate and you shouldn't be forced to". I think the greater effect on the election is actually how the Democratic primary proceeds. Bernie has quite possibly the best situation in a century to advocate for universal healthcare - instead of it being a pandemic in the future whose potential scope is only just being comprehended by the time that Obama phones up Pete and Amy on Super Tuesday, he has the mountain of corpses to point at. On the other hand, he doesn't have a volunteer army, which is how his campaign functioned - he didn't get any help from the media and didn't plan to. And also there's how the virus and lockdowns affect the process of voting in the primaries, because if there isn't mail-in ballots and Bernie has the same basic compassion for people and doesn't command people to go out and vote like Biden and Perez did, then that fucks up his chances even if it's worth in for the reduced death toll. If there are mail-in ballots, then that kinda nullifies the effect of the Party closing voting booths in progressive strongholds (and Iowa is probably even more of a shitstorm). The final contest is then Trump with the bonus from being seen as the dude who developed the vaccine but is somewhat hamstringed in that he can't flout it all the time without pissing off his base, versus Bernie, who can just gesture around him when asked why universal healthcare is a requirement for a functional country to exist but has the entire weight of the media and party undermining him like Corbyn was in the UK, and writing articles like "Voting for the lesser of two evils must stop for democracy to continue" and "Why vote for two misogynistic old white men when Jill Stein is here and ready to shake things up in Washington?". It's definitely close, maybe even as close as Biden vs Trump in our universe was, but Bernie edges it out. And if it's Biden vs Trump in the other universe, Biden loses. Trump's fuckup can be obscured by the beginning of the vaccine rollout, again like the UK with the Conservative Party leaving one of the highest per capita corpse piles in the world in their wake and then doing a successful vaccine program to "make up for it"

Carboniferous

Ah yes. "Suppose there is a consumer union backed by public banking " glad you imagined away that irrelevant shit, like, you know, organizing the unions, maintaining them, getting public baaanking passed - you know, reality type shit

William

The real cope is when online anarchists counsel everyone to "read moletesta" or whatever

SF

some real bernie cope in this one 😴

Matt Crossin

Great episode.

Riley Bloomer-Ludwig

Nobody cares.

Riley Bloomer-Ludwig

The more interesting potential Trump hingepoint that wasn't discussed: what if covid happens 6 months earlier and unfolds exactly the same way, except the vaccines come out in August/September and Trump gets to take full credit for them. Do his supporters turn on him for promoting vaccination, or does he become our god emperor?

Minaisen

Our assigned value has shifted, from worker to consumer, but somehow the organizing never shifted with it. The old days of shaming ALEC members or pipeline divestment campaigns are fading, partly because of schizophrenic popular controversies and dissolved attention spans, but also misplaced organizing. Consumer unions, backed up by public banking, could subsidize low income cinsumers and allow everyone to participate. Imagine being able to pick one evil company over (Shell over Chevron, General Mills over Kelloggs), save money in the process, and force real change through targeted attacks. Argue with me about how it isn't possible or would be bad. Its fun to be a contrarian, go for it. Or, ask me to provide examples. The competitive market is just getting more imaginary over time.

Adam Sullivan

Also of course China is trying to project power overseas. All countries do it.

Tom Clarke

You haven’t cracked the formula and it grates to hear you saying that every time you do these poor episodes.

Tom Clarke

Loved this episode.

Jacob Garza